MotoGP

[p6x]

@GuzziMoto

I was based in Italy from 1981 until 1992; thereafter, because of my "experience" working with Italians, I was often assigned to their local entities in some of the countries I worked. Even in Kazakhstan.

Let's say very diplomatically that I am used to the Italian way of things. Paolo Campinoti just clearly demonstrated it. He felt shafted, so he took off.

I could write a script about the number of soothing calls he will have gotten from just about everyone in Ducati, including Gigi. When I was based in Ravenna, Emilia Romagna, the local Agip (ENI now) manager was, I imagine, very similar to Paolo Campinoti.

A complete autocratic nut case! he was feared by people above him. I only once got into his office in Ravenna, for a proper rimming. Behind his desk, was a made to wall size poster of him behind the wheel of a Ferrari Formula 1. He seemed to inspire fear everywhere he went. He seemed untouchable. I actually looked up his name on the Internet, but could not find him.

I picture Paolo Campinoti exactly like that. This was the last guy Ducati should have offended, and they did. Marquez too.

Anyway, this is done, and I can't wait to see what is going to happen next year between the aces' trio. Bagnaia is very good, so is Martin, so is Marquez.

[Lucky Phil]

18 hours ago, GuzziMoto said:

Yes, it seems clear that Ducati were expecting Marc Marquez to go to Pramac, and even Marc seemed on board with that saying all he wanted was a current spec bike. When Marc switched tactics and declared that Pramac was not an option for him it clearly caught Ducati management off guard. And Marc did it in such a way that he also insulted the Pramac team, that along with the factory shafting their current rider. That led to Pramac leaving as well, which Ducati was clearly not ready for. The whole things could be a poster child for how NOT to run a racing team. And as much as they try to say Marc did not cause all those events, anyone watching knows who really made all that happen. And I suspect that was all done by Marc to establish who the number one rider at Ducati is. The way he made them bend over to sign him to their factory team made it clear who the most important rider at Ducati is.

And yes, it is interesting that Ducati may be the only brand on the grid next year running last years bikes as well as next years bikes. Although I am not sure LCR has the current spec Honda bikes for both their riders. When Cal was there Honda gave them one current spec bike for Cal and one of last years bikes for the other rider (originally Jack Miller back in 2015 when they added the second bike). I don't recall them ever getting upgraded from that deal, and I would actually guess that when Cal left they reverted to both bikes being last years bikes as they only gave Cal a current spec bike so he could help them test. After Cal left I do recall hearing a number of riders at LCR complaining that they were not being utilized to help develop the bike. No doubt in part to how little development you can do when you are riding last years bike. But maybe LCR now have a pair of current spec bikes. Some would say Honda need the extra current spec bikes to help them develop the bike. I am not sure I buy that, seems to me having to build four new parts every time they want to try a new part would slow down building new parts. Easier to build two, see if they are better, and if they are build more like that.

Me thinks MM got the inside info on Pramac maybe not staying with Ducati and didn't want to be stuck with a Yamaha and the rest of the handbags at 50 paces from Campinoti is just smoke and mirrors. 

Edited July 4 by Lucky Phil

[p6x]

I watched MM93 starting 13th on the grid, and taking to the mids one rider at a time.

It is not only that he is good at riding fast, but he is very astute in overtaking his opponents. I think he does it better than most of the rest.

I think that not only he is a great pilot, but also a great tactician. I don't think many in the actual GP can stand up to him on pure plotting and planning passes. He combines many skills under one helmet.

It makes me wonder though, did he plan to kill Martin's de facto move to Ducati? I am not certain. In any case, he played his cards very well.

In fact, looking back, each time he has started from a back position on the grid, he managed to make his way up relatively easily compared to other riders starting in the same retro positions.

I expect him to manage the same exploit tomorrow.

[Tomchri]

MM had a nasty HS today, broke a chicken bone in the hand, and a ribfracture   But seeing him getting the bike back up on two wheels using his arm and feet, amasing at least to me. To bad he was hold up today, not intensional tho, RACING   Will see.

Cheers Tom.

[p6x]

2 hours ago, Tomchri said:

MM had a nasty HS today, broke a chicken bone in the hand, and a ribfracture   But seeing him getting the bike back up on two wheels using his arm and feet, amasing at least to me. To bad he was hold up today, not intensional tho, RACING   Will see.

Cheers Tom.

Even diminished like he is, not the fractured finger, but the rib's contusion, I would not put it past him to be able to win tomorrow the long race.

Of course, the sprint was way too short for him to be able to get back to the front. Tomorrow will be different. After all, he finished "only" six seconds off the head of the race, within a shot of Franco Morbidelli.

I am guessing that for the long race, Jorge Martin will not be able to cruise as he did today.

The real surprise was Miguel Oliveira. Another surprise is the low competitiveness of the KTM overall. Pedro Acosta seems to have hit a stop somewhere, while Brad Binder is really struggling.

 

[p6x]

We now know who will get the non factory team Ducati GP 25/26: Fabio Digiannantonio / VR46.

There were some talks about having him moving to Yamaha from next year, given that he is not one of the VR46 academy boys.

 

[Joe]

MM 93, high sides over the weekend, breaks a finger, bruised ribs,  qualifies 13th, finishes 2nd in GP race 

[audiomick]

2 hours ago, Joe said:

... finishes 2nd in GP race 

He was no doubt in a hurry to get the race over and done with quickly because his finger was hurting.

[LowRyter]

2 hours ago, Joe said:

MM 93, high sides over the weekend, breaks a finger, bruised ribs,  qualifies 13th, finishes 2nd in GP race 

in fairness, his brother let him go around him and Martin crashed from the lead.  It was a good run at his best track considering it all. 

 

I was happy for JR#16 getting 8th.  Pretty gutsy run. 

[Joe]

22 hours ago, Tomchri said:

MM had a nasty HS today, broke a chicken bone in the hand, and a ribfracture   But seeing him getting the bike back up on two wheels using his arm and feet, amasing at least to me. To bad he was hold up today, not intensional tho, RACING   Will see.

Cheers Tom.

 

27 minutes ago, LowRyter said:

in fairness, his brother let him go around him and Martin crashed from the lead.  It was a good run at his best track considering it all. 

 

I was happy for JR#16 getting 8th.  Pretty gutsy run. 

MM can’t seem to qualify on that bike with a good but not factory team. He has made multiple mid grid starts and made podium this year. Some folks are going to always hate his style, I’ve found myself in that camp, especially when he dominated at HRC for many years, made the sport boring to watch.

But now, he is racing as if his career depended on it. After his crash, I thought he should hang it up for the weekend, then he podiums 2nd. Imagine the superior engineering of the Ducati factory team behind him to qualify what is possible. It will be interesting next season to see, but this season has already been a special one for the Marquez brothers.

Edited July 7 by Joe

[GuzziMoto]

On 7/4/2024 at 3:16 AM, Lucky Phil said:

Me thinks MM got the inside info on Pramac maybe not staying with Ducati and didn't want to be stuck with a Yamaha and the rest of the handbags at 50 paces from Campinoti is just smoke and mirrors. 

Perhaps. But it looks like Pramac was going to stay until he insulted them and then Ducati snatched him away from being their number 1 rider next year, moving Marc to the factory team over Pramac's rider whom they had been grooming for that same factory seat. A double insult, maybe a triple insult, and it seems enough to stop Pramac from renewing their contract with Ducati. That was a racer showing who is boss. Besides, it would have been likely that Marcs contract would have been with Ducati, not Pramac, and Pramac would simply have been the team he rode a factory Ducati for. Until he blew up that deal, and with it Ducati's relationship with Pramac.

The end result from that one decision by Ducati to sign Marc Marquez is only six Ducati's on the grid next year, only three of them will be current spec bikes. That will be fewer current spec bikes then any other manufacturer, although arguably that is on them as much as it is on Marc. Also, their number two team is no longer their team, and several of their best riders have left their fold. On the positive side of the leger is they will have Marc Marquez, but arguably they already had him. Where was he really going to go if his expressed desire was to be on the best bike? They lost much to gain what they already had. And it will likely only get worse, as Marc will surely bring tension to the factory team.

[GuzziMoto]

On 7/3/2024 at 12:17 PM, p6x said:

@GuzziMoto

I was based in Italy from 1981 until 1992; thereafter, because of my "experience" working with Italians, I was often assigned to their local entities in some of the countries I worked. Even in Kazakhstan.

Let's say very diplomatically that I am used to the Italian way of things. Paolo Campinoti just clearly demonstrated it. He felt shafted, so he took off.

I could write a script about the number of soothing calls he will have gotten from just about everyone in Ducati, including Gigi. When I was based in Ravenna, Emilia Romagna, the local Agip (ENI now) manager was, I imagine, very similar to Paolo Campinoti.

A complete autocratic nut case! he was feared by people above him. I only once got into his office in Ravenna, for a proper rimming. Behind his desk, was a made to wall size poster of him behind the wheel of a Ferrari Formula 1. He seemed to inspire fear everywhere he went. He seemed untouchable. I actually looked up his name on the Internet, but could not find him.

I picture Paolo Campinoti exactly like that. This was the last guy Ducati should have offended, and they did. Marquez too.

Anyway, this is done, and I can't wait to see what is going to happen next year between the aces' trio. Bagnaia is very good, so is Martin, so is Marquez.

I get leaving Ducati after such an insult / slight. But I don't get going to Yamaha. They could have talked to KTM, a team that wants two more spots on the grid desperately and would no doubt have made them a good deal. Perhaps not as extreme as the deal Yamaha made, but then the bikes KTM would provide are worlds better and KTM is more serious about racing then Yamaha will ever be. Yamaha always has been and always will be a street bike manufacturer that races, while KTM is a race bike manufacturer that sells street bikes to fund their racing. Plus they have a long term relationship with Red Bull so their pockets are pretty deep compared to their size.

[p6x]

2 hours ago, GuzziMoto said:

I get leaving Ducati after such an insult / slight. But I don't get going to Yamaha. They could have talked to KTM, a team that wants two more spots on the grid desperately and would no doubt have made them a good deal. Perhaps not as extreme as the deal Yamaha made, but then the bikes KTM would provide are worlds better and KTM is more serious about racing then Yamaha will ever be. Yamaha always has been and always will be a street bike manufacturer that races, while KTM is a race bike manufacturer that sells street bikes to fund their racing. Plus they have a long term relationship with Red Bull so their pockets are pretty deep compared to their size.

Paolo Campinoti is Italian, but he is also a successful manager. Even if we can expect the "Italian way" in his behavior, I doubt very much he took Yamaha without a lot of guarantees for the future.

We are just talking here, and I do not have a clue what the contract clauses he signed contain. One thing I know for certain, is that Campinoti is a true MotoGP fanatic. He did not need to own a team, but he still did it. He is present at all the races. Yes, he has the means, but he also has an identical passion for it.

We can only hope that Yamaha is going to come around, as they seem to be investing to that effect.

I hear you re KTM, and I understand what you mean. Besides the fact that part of Italy is nearer to Austria than Italy, where I have been numerous times. You actually feel that you are in Austria, including people's names and language. As I often go to Alsace, it feels a bit of the same, with Germany.

We may no more as time goes by.

[GuzziMoto]

1 hour ago, p6x said:

Paolo Campinoti is Italian, but he is also a successful manager. Even if we can expect the "Italian way" in his behavior, I doubt very much he took Yamaha without a lot of guarantees for the future.

We are just talking here, and I do not have a clue what the contract clauses he signed contain. One thing I know for certain, is that Campinoti is a true MotoGP fanatic. He did not need to own a team, but he still did it. He is present at all the races. Yes, he has the means, but he also has an identical passion for it.

We can only hope that Yamaha is going to come around, as they seem to be investing to that effect.

I hear you re KTM, and I understand what you mean. Besides the fact that part of Italy is nearer to Austria than Italy, where I have been numerous times. You actually feel that you are in Austria, including people's names and language. As I often go to Alsace, it feels a bit of the same, with Germany.

We may no more as time goes by.

Word is he signed a seven year contract with Yamaha. They provide the bikes, current spec Yamaha's, for free. Yamaha will also pay his riders salaries. So it is a good deal. No word on how much say he will have in who his riders are, but based on an interview he did recently he seems to think he will have a lot of say. But the way he said it seemed to say that it is not up to just him who his riders are. It sounds like it will be a group decision between him and Yamaha. Still, a sweet deal. He just needs to find the money to run the team, but no doubt his sponsors will less keen to spend the same amount of money to sponsor the team when they are no longer getting the exposure the team currently gets.

I don't think he could have got that deal with KTM, but I suspect he could have come close. And with KTM he would get a more competitive bike. But it is water under the bridge, now.

[p6x]

2 hours ago, GuzziMoto said:

But the way he said it seemed to say that it is not up to just him who his riders are. It sounds like it will be a group decision between him and Yamaha.

In private, he is known to be a strong character. Now, he most certainly signed for the long term, and he has been given certitudes that Yamaha will take all the necessary measures to get back in front.

The top guns have been hired, so he will have to look at the alternatives to ride his bikes. At least for the next seasons before the technical changes take effect.