MotoGP

[GuzziMoto]

1 hour ago, p6x said:

Second fiddlers move on up....

As Nakagami ends his MotoGP career, Thai hopeful Somkat Chantra takes his place.

This maybe a clue to why Ai Ogura was picked over Roberts for the Trackhouse Aprilia.

The Asian market is most likely an easier target than the USA one; at least it appears to me. Joe Roberts may not be the ideal pilot to captivate US audiences. I think they need more than one guy. Such as when Colin Edwards, Ben Spies, and of course Nicky Hayden were in the roster.

They probably need names which are already established in the AMA Superbike championship to get a jump start. Guys like Josh Herrin, but at 34, he is already too old.

I think the clue is in the other direction. Ogura would not sign to ride the Honda, and instead chose to ride the Aprilia. And I suspect many other racers Honda wanted would also not sign to ride their bike. It is not a seat that too many racers want. So they had to take what they could get. Chantra is pretty far down the list, no doubt. But you never know, he may do well on it. I doubt it, but the bar for "well" on the Honda is pretty low.

As to Roberts, his problem now is his age,  having missed out on this cycle means he will be too old in two years when the next round of contracts is open. So unless a change happens mid-cycle I don't see him getting a MotoGP seat.

Edited August 29 by GuzziMoto

[GuzziMoto]

16 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

You need to refine or examine the engineering term for "trellis" as a starting point but also I'll point out that the carbon bike did not connect the steering head to the cases but to the the cylinder heads and there in lies the difference. And it's a major difference. The classic Ducati trellis design uses the engine as a "stressed" member and eventually they evolved to a "semi stressed" member with the 916 because they added frame connections to the swingarm pivot. So the engine could be removed and the chassis rolled around like any bike sans engine. This was done to compensate for quadrupling the engine power over the original design engine and massively more mechanical grip through wider radial tyres and also because the early bikes like the 851/888 series had issues with crash damage caused to the rhs rear engine mount which could also crack even through riding on poor condition country roads such as we have here.  

With regards to your 750 race bike experience and engine cases and frame interactions I'm afraid your mechanic was wrong. I've supported/built 600 and 750 powered F2 and F1 factory Ducati race bikes at the IOM TT the toughest racing there was and is on road race machinery and also in domestic racing here as well as my 888 race bike and later 996 Ducatis in WSB spec at WSB races as well as domestic racing and I can say that none of them ever leaked at the case joints due to stress the rider put on them. Non of them ever leaked at a case joint period that I put together. Even in 996 form in the hands of former national champions and regular WSB riders who rode them hard they were always oil tight unless they had a failure. They suffered other consequences to racing stress but I've never seen one leak at the case joint because of it. 

I can't offer any more value to this conversation so I'll make this my final post.

Phil 

A trellis frame does not refer to where it attaches to the engine or even if it attaches to the engine. It refers to the trellis design of the frame itself (in this case trellis means it is made up of metal tubes). Where it attaches to the engine doesn't enter into it.

And wow, the arrogance it takes to say that something that happened did not happen because you have never noticed it happening. Wow. 

[LowRyter]

12 hours ago, p6x said:

That's new to me.

Since ever, the English have disliked the French... I was always under the impression there was some special relation between the US and UK; after all, the first states were mainly populated by Britons...

That being said, it seem that Loris Baz and Josh Herrin are having a bromance being Ducati partners in Moto America 2024. They have hit it off on and off track...

I will never understand how can Loris 6.4' can fit on a racing motorcycle. Most successful pilots are relatively small.

My opinion is watching some of the F1 commentary vs MotoGP.  F1 is largely based in England and it seems the entire structure wants to bar American participation whether drivers or teams.  Instead of being upfront that they're motivated by simple greed, instead their rationalization is based on demeaning unworthy American competition.  

I think MotoGP wants to expand in the US and would like to have an American rider or two.  If they were flush like F1 with three GPs, perhaps not?  Dunno.

I didn't mean to imply that this was on any personal basis at all.  I've had great personal interactions with people of all nationalities.  In fact, when traveling or meeting tourists, I find the people encountered are more friendly than the people in my town.

Edited August 29 by LowRyter

[p6x]

21 hours ago, LowRyter said:

I didn't mean to imply that this was on any personal basis at all.

I did not take it as such; we are all civilized on this forum... or we try to be!

I was quoting from personal experience, because when I was young, my father thought it would be important to speak English, and I spent each and every summer vacation in the United Kingdom hosted by UK families, while all my friends enjoyed the French Riviera.

Later on, I began my career as a logging engineer; the oilfield was dominated by the US at the time, most drilling companies were from the US. Being French meant automatically being taken as a lesser individual, until you proved them wrong.

I have been sneered upon, but in my line of work, you grow a thick skin, or you don't last. It got better with time; but hostility based on your country of citizenship is not pleasant to deal with.

[p6x]

Seems like Marc Marquez has decided that he will resume with victory at Aragon this weekend.

 

[LowRyter]

4 hours ago, p6x said:

I did not take it as such; we are all civilized on this forum... or we try to be!

I was quoting from personal experience, because when I was young, my father thought it would be important to speak English, and I spent each and every summer vacation in the United Kingdom hosted by UK families, while all my friends enjoyed the French Riviera.

Later on, I began my career as a logging engineer; the oilfield was dominated by the US at the time, most drilling companies were from the US. Being French meant automatically being taken as a lesser individual, until you proved them wrong.

I have been sneered upon, but in my line of work, you grow a thick skin, or you don't last. It got better with time; but hostility based on your country of citizenship is not pleasant to deal with.

I spent a week in Paris and had a great time.  People were nice and courteous.  I remember walking back to the hotel from dinner smoking a cigar and asked the wife to go in ask the manager if I finished it the hotel courtyard.  I was waved in and the manager said, "Mr John, you're in Paris, you can do what you want."

That was pretty nice.

The language barrier makes for more confusion than disagreements IMO. 

None of which has anything regarding my feeling about anti American F1.

[p6x]

I am not going to tell you who won the sprint race in Aragon, because nobody saw it coming (sarcasm)...

There are some lessons learned, however, at least to me.

The Aprilia had a card to play in this race, but as it seems to be the norm, those who were expected were not the incumbent ones.

I always had doubts about Maverick Viñales mental strength; he knows how to ride a MotoGP, but he seems to always miss the mark when everybody feels that he should have not.

If anybody was beginning to doubt, Pedro Acosta has shown that he can be trusted, or was it because of Aragon?

It is also good to see that both Gresini riders did well.

I expect the race to be a bis repetita placent of the Sprint. No suspense!

 

Edited August 31 by p6x

[PJPR01]

Let's hope so!!! 

[p6x]

@PJPR01

As predicted, with a tad more drama this time.

Once again, the resurfacing of the track, coupled with a "dirty" side has conditioned the race for some. If you add the rain during the night, then tires were once more the center of a controversy.

Martin has regained 23 points over Bagnaia which at least keeps the Championship open.

I am interested to find out what will happen for the two races that will take place back to back at Misano, the first of the two happening next week.

 

 

[LowRyter]

Alex' fault but racing incident.   Supposedly Alex couldn't see Pecco until it was too late.  

Edited September 1 by LowRyter

[p6x]

3 hours ago, LowRyter said:

Alex' fault but racing incident.   Supposedly Alex couldn't see Pecco until it was too late.  

If I had been Bagnaia, I would not have taken for granted that Alex had seen me coming. Especially when I am competing for the championship. The race direction said that the lack of options to be outside the clean trajectory was a contributing factor for both pilots in this case.

I don't think it is a big drawback for Bagnaia, 23 points is not that significant given the number of remaining points available until November. Bagnaia has been very strong in Misano throughout the years.

[PJPR01]

Thrilling to see Marquez back on top…now the question is what really changed that the Ducati is now a good fit and you get a 5 second advantage over all others and why did Bagnaia fall off a cliff in his riding…nonetheless it was great to see Acosta also place on the podium this time and congrats to Jorge as the current championship leader…let’s see if he can stretch it all the way to the end of the season!

[p6x]

3 hours ago, PJPR01 said:

Thrilling to see Marquez back on top…now the question is what really changed that the Ducati is now a good fit and you get a 5 second advantage over all others and why did Bagnaia fall off a cliff in his riding…nonetheless it was great to see Acosta also place on the podium this time and congrats to Jorge as the current championship leader…let’s see if he can stretch it all the way to the end of the season!

To be fair, Marc Marquez is always strong on tracks that run anti-clockwise. Aragon is one of those, and he has won here every time he was fit.

What I found of interest is that none of the other Ducati had anything to show him. I accept that Bagnaia was starting on the dirty side of the track, that certainly affected him. I mean, all GP23 and GP24 together were suddenly not at the same level.

I don't expect Marc Marquez to be dominating like he did this weekend at the other GPs, but he has clearly shown everyone that he is still a force to be reckoned with.

Bagnaia would have made it to third.

What is mesmerizing is the missed opportunity from Aprilia. I am lost for words with Maverick Viñales.

[GuzziMoto]

In my opinion Vinales did what he always does. You never know which version of him will show up. If he feels good, if he has confidence, he can be amazingly fast. But on that track, with those low grip levels, he was never going to show up feeling good, feeling confident. And without that feeling, without that confidence, he will struggle.

I was not surprised Marc Marquez won. Nobody should have been. It was not a sure thing, but he was clearly the favorite to win. I think he was the favorite before they even turned a lap in practice. After practice it was pretty clear he was better that weekend then anyone else. The only person who could have stopped Marc from winning that race was Marc. Unless he screwed the pooch and made one of his classic mistakes, he was going to win. Between the left hand counter-clockwise layout and the excessively low grip due to the recent re-paving, he was in his happy place.

Being fairly opinionated, I certainly have an opinion on the Alex Marquez / Pecco Bagnia crash. It seems I agree with Simon Crafer, it was a racing incident but the blame was clearly on Alex. He should have seen Pecco, as Pecco was 90% in front of him (also, his angle going into the corner was such that he should have seen that Pecco was on the racing line and mostly in front of him. But as Marquez crashes go that was fairly tame as far as recklessness is concerned. It clearly wasn't tame as far as danger is concerned, he literally ran over Pecco. But for a Marquez crash it was not bad. I would guess that Alex was determined to hold on to that podium, he really wanted to finish on the podium with his brother for his brothers first win in a few years.  He was in podium or bin it mode. And he binned it. Sadly, he took Pecco with him. But this may be the new reality for Ducati. With both Marquez brothers on Ducati's, the old "All for one, one for all" mentality will probably not be there. The Marquez brothers are only out for themselves. Not only did Alex mess up, he took Ducati's number one rider and championship contender with him. It will be funny if the points lost that day end up costing Pecco the title, Martin wins the title, and Martin takes the number 1 plate with him to Aprilia. I will laugh, they did it to themselves.

[PJPR01]

Here's the conspiracy theory...had they been bunched up all together, Alex would have been the hitman to take out Bagnaia to ensure Marc would win...what's odd here is he did it with a 5 second cushion to Jorge...makes no sense...but maybe Alex thinks he can become Marc by crashing more often.