MotoGP

[KINDOY2]

 

Sept 2024..."Among the championship protagonists, Pramac’s Jorge Martin has suffered seven accidents in 2024 so far - including from the lead of the German GP before the summer break - while Francesco Bagnaia and Enea Bastianini have crashed five times each on their factory Ducatis."

I have a different perspective on Moto GP results this year

Pecco won 11 actual MOTO GP races this Year, Martin won 3.

Martin got most of his advantage from the short "SPRINT" races

In my opinion   "Sprint" races should be a totally different category, 2 yrs ago when they decided to have sprint races on Saturdays ( mostly to bolster the Dorna  organizations wallets). If you will recall when DORNA announced they were adding sprint races to the Championship The majority of the MGP of the riders were against it..they did not spend years to  ascend to  Moto GP with the plan to ride sprints..SPRINTS are NOT GRAND PIX RACING...and don't require the skills of tire management and concentration that a Grand Prix does.

In what other type of racing do they combine 2 different categories  to determine the seasons  champion?   Formula one with Drag Racing? Circle track and Road racing? Stock Cars and indy cars racing?  motorcycle  Speedway and Superbikes, Moto cross and trials? 

  In my mind the person who won the most Most Grand Prix races is the Grand Prix champion.   

 

 

 

 

?

 

"As of September among the championship protagonists, Pramac’s Jorge Martin has suffered seven crash accidents in 2024 so far - including from the lead of the German GP before the summer break - while Francesco Bagnaia and Enea Bastianini have crashed five times each on their factory Ducatis."

[p6x]

I think the sprint races were added to get more audience. Before the Saturday shorts, the public would mainly be present in numbers on Sundays.

With the additional race on Saturday, they got more people spending the week-end at the race track.

Ultimately, they certainly got financial benefits from it, but the initial objective was to get more interest to the MotoGP races.

In any case, Dorna is turning over MotoGP to Liberty. They already have changed the logo of the sport.

As for the fond, I think I remember times when the championship winner was not the one with the most race wins. But I agree that Bagnaia had a more prestigious season, not reflected in the points. They should maybe change the points for the sprint race.

[GuzziMoto]

As it is Sprint races are only worth at most just under half the points a full race is worth. You can win two sprint races and still not get as many points as you get for winning one GP.

Bagnaia failed to finish in three full races, Portimao, Aragon, and Misano and five sprint races, Jerez, LeMans, Catalunya, Silverstone, and Sepang.

Martin failed to finish in two full races, Jerez and Sachsenring, and two sprint races, Mugello and Mandalika.

So, It is hard to say how many points each crash cost each rider, because a rider might not have won a race had he not crashed (I believe both riders crashed out of the lead at least once, Bagnaia did it right at the end of a race with a win surely in his grasp). But Bagnaia left a potential 75 points on the table by DNFing out of three GPs, plus 60 potential points by DNFing out of five sprint races. He clearly left more points on the table with his GP race DNFs, but the reality is he left too many points on the table by crashing too many times. Sure, he won more races, but that has never been what decides a championship (ask Joan Mir). It has always been about earning points over the season. And the reality is Martin crashed out fewer times, and took more second places then Bagnaia. Martin finished 2nd some sixteen times, where as Bagnaia finished 2nd two times. Sure, winning is the name of the game, but second pays almost as many points and if you can finish on the podium almost every time you have a good chance of winning the title. I believe Martin had only eight non-podium finishes, out of the forty races, including his DNFs. Bagnaia had thirteen non-podium finishes, again counting his DNFs.

I am not a massive fan of the sprint races, but they do add a new element to the show. It is not a completely different form of racing, just a different length of race that puts less emphasis on conserving tires. And it has been on some weekends the more entertaining race. There are plenty of racing series that have different length races, that is actually really common. It can require different strategies to win different length races, but it is still racing the same bikes (or cars) around the same courses. In the end, there are a given number of races and each racer is trying to score as many points over the span of those races to win the championship. This year the racer that did that best was Jorge Martin.

Edited Monday at 08:32 PM by GuzziMoto

[p6x]

Shoot! I am going to need to become a MM93 fan, now that he is completely Red! good thinking Ducati for having put Francesco Bagnaia in full white, to have a nice contrast.

Here's the link to the MotoGP video, which cannot be embedded; you have to watch it on YouTube.

At the end of his first outing, he gives his impressions in Italian to his crew chief.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDgrlZvyyDk

 

Edited Tuesday at 04:27 PM by p6x

[KINDOY2]

21 hours ago, GuzziMoto said:

As it is Sprint races are only worth at most just under half the points a full race is worth. You can win two sprint races and still not get as many points as you get for winning one GP.

Bagnaia failed to finish in three full races, Portimao, Aragon, and Misano and five sprint races, Jerez, LeMans, Catalunya, Silverstone, and Sepang.

Martin failed to finish in two full races, Jerez and Sachsenring, and two sprint races, Mugello and Mandalika.

So, It is hard to say how many points each crash cost each rider, because a rider might not have won a race had he not crashed (I believe both riders crashed out of the lead at least once, Bagnaia did it right at the end of a race with a win surely in his grasp). But Bagnaia left a potential 75 points on the table by DNFing out of three GPs, plus 60 potential points by DNFing out of five sprint races. He clearly left more points on the table with his GP race DNFs, but the reality is he left too many points on the table by crashing too many times. Sure, he won more races, but that has never been what decides a championship (ask Joan Mir). It has always been about earning points over the season. And the reality is Martin crashed out fewer times, and took more second places then Bagnaia. Martin finished 2nd some sixteen times, where as Bagnaia finished 2nd two times. Sure, winning is the name of the game, but second pays almost as many points and if you can finish on the podium almost every time you have a good chance of winning the title. I believe Martin had only eight non-podium finishes, out of the forty races, including his DNFs. Bagnaia had thirteen non-podium finishes, again counting his DNFs.

I am not a massive fan of the sprint races, but they do add a new element to the show. It is not a completely different form of racing, just a different length of race that puts less emphasis on conserving tires. And it has been on some weekends the more entertaining race. There are plenty of racing series that have different length races, that is actually really common. It can require different strategies to win different length races, but it is still racing the same bikes (or cars) around the same courses. In the end, there are a given number of races and each racer is trying to score as many points over the span of those races to win the championship. This year the racer that did that best was Jorge Martin.

 Agostini,Read,Roberts,Doohan,Rossi,Stoner , Marquez,    Were all GP World Champions..They were good enough for me...They never Rode a Sprint race...I see no reason to change..

We used to call those a "Trophy Dash",same bikes, same track, shortened race ,  irrelevant to the #1 plate....That was the guy who won the most main events.

[GuzziMoto]

52 minutes ago, KINDOY2 said:

 Agostini,Read,Roberts,Doohan,Rossi,Stoner , Marquez,    Were all GP World Champions..They were good enough for me...They never Rode a Sprint race...I see no reason to change..

We used to call those a "Trophy Dash",same bikes, same track, shortened race ,  irrelevant to the #1 plate....That was the guy who won the most main events.

Fair enough, but clearly the people running MotoGP don't agree with you. They want to expand and grow the sport. And so far it is working. These past two season have been very exciting.

[fotoguzzi]

Quote

. I believe Martin had only eight non-podium finishes, out of the forty races

Impressive, my wife asked does that beat Rossi? Do you know?

[GuzziMoto]

1 hour ago, fotoguzzi said:

Impressive, my wife asked does that beat Rossi? Do you know?

It is hard to compare, as when Rossi raced there were never anywhere near this many races. Forty races is more then twice the number of races they had when Rossi raced. So it makes comparing hard. 

In 2020 Joan Mir won by being the most consistent guy. There were 14 races and he was on the podium seven times. So, no where near the percentage of podium finishes Martin had this year. But it was enough that he was able to win the title with only one race win.

Back in 2001 there were 16 races, and Rossi won the title with 13 podium finishes, including 11 race wins. I am not great at math, but I believe as a percentage goes what Rossi had was as high or higher percentage of podiums in 2001 then Martin did this year. But then Rossi finished 2001 with 325 points to Biaggi in second places 219 points. So Rossi was clearly more dominant over those 16 races. It was not just podiums for Rossi, he had 11 race wins. Only two of his podiums were not wins.

[GuzziMoto]

Oh, in 2005 Rossi was on the podium every race but one. There were 17 races that year. One DNF when he crashed out, every other race was a podium.

Marc Marquez has likely had equally dominant years, but as I don't like him I am not going to dig up Marc's numbers.

While Martin was consistent, it was in no way a domination. He won by ten points over another rider who won more but crashed out more. The turtle vs the hare.

[KINDOY2]

Australian racing legend, Casey Stoner, criticized the Sprint Race format which has lasted two seasons in MotoGP. According to him, these short races should be removed from the competition schedule!

Stoner emphasized that the existence of the Sprint Race has eliminated the essence of real racing. This race made the racers lose concentration during the main race on Sunday.

"They held a Sprint Race by taking up time that could have been used to concentrate on the main race. They shouldn't hold a world championship with mini (races). This should be an endurance stage," Stoner said.

"The world championship should take place in a long distance race. You (can't) collect points from this kind of sprint race because the points should be earned on Sunday when the main race."Australian racing legend, Casey Stoner, criticized the Sprint Race format which has lasted two seasons in MotoGP. According to him, these short races should be removed from the competition schedule!

Stoner emphasized that the existence of the Sprint Race has eliminated the essence of real racing. This race made the racers lose concentration during the main race on Sunday.

"They held a Sprint Race by taking up time that could have been used to concentrate on the main race. They shouldn't hold a world championship with mini (races). This should be an endurance stage," Stoner said.

"The world championship should take place in a long distance race. You (can't) collect points from this kind of sprint race because the points should be earned on Sunday when the main race."Australian racing legend, Casey Stoner, criticized the Sprint Race format which has lasted two seasons in MotoGP. According to him, these short races should be removed from the competition schedule!

Stoner emphasized that the existence of the Sprint Race has eliminated the essence of real racing. This race made the racers lose concentration during the main race on Sunday.

"They held a Sprint Race by taking up time that could have been used to concentrate on the main race. They shouldn't hold a world championship with mini (races). This should be an endurance stage," Stoner said.

"The world championship should take place in a long distance race. You (can't) collect points from this kind of sprint race because the points should be earned on Sunday when the main race."

Edited Wednesday at 03:44 AM by KINDOY2

[Pressureangle]

It's all so simple.

The organizers have finally caved completely to the fact that crashes bring interest and interest brings revenue.

[GuzziMoto]

I remember all the people predicting that the sprint races will be crash fests....

But in the end that did not happen. 

[p6x]

Whatever the format they fancy, how they promote it, nothing will ever equal the Grand-Prix held in the 70's. There, you had the pilots and the public mixed together. I literally remember talking to Barry Sheene as he was working on his Suzuki 500 before the Trophée du Million.

There were no hospitality trucks, sleeping RVs. The only guy who was not easily accessible was Giacomo Agostini. But he was the big star of the pack.

Today's races have lost that spirit of bonne humeur that you always found when you attended a race. The locals would often invite you into their home when they found out you had travelled all the way from your country just to see some guys running in circle.

Today's races atmosphere are very different. I am told it is because I don't get it. I think it is because I can make the difference between then and now. The newer crowd can't.

Simple.