MotoGP

[p6x]

Jorge Martin added to the list of his injuries Sunday, including a collapsed lung which is going to impede his quick return to Spain, and compromise his Jerez participation which was initially anticipated as his return to race appointment.

The front tire pressure rule has struck again!

 

Edited yesterday at 03:00 PM by p6x

[GuzziMoto]

Well, that was the Marc Marquez of earlier this year, the smarter Marc that doesn't ride beyond his limits to make a point. It wasn't the Marc that we saw at COTA. It was a measured and intelligent ride by Marc to take the win. It was not that from his brother, Alex. Although, to be fair, the contact between Marc and Alex was a racing incident that was mainly Marcs fault. And as I understand it Marc said as much. But the way Alex nailed Digi was brutal. Of course, not as brutal as what happened to Jorge Martin. And then, just to remind us how bad the joke is,  a fantastic ride by Vinales was screwed because of a lame rule about tire pressures. That continues to be a bad joke. Vinales was likely robbed of a second place because he managed to get out front in clean air and lead the race for some 5 laps or so. That needs to stop.

This is perhaps the first race where Ducati's decision to sign Marc Marquez actually paid off. This is the first race that Ducati might not have won had they not signed Marc.

[p6x]

2 hours ago, GuzziMoto said:

This is perhaps the first race where Ducati's decision to sign Marc Marquez actually paid off. This is the first race that Ducati might not have won had they not signed Marc.

I think a Ducati would have won.

Yes, Marc Marquez was very smart on this one. Bagnaia did pretty well to come back from afar, but this world championship seems to already have its favorite. I am not saying Bagnaia is out of contention, but it seems clear that Marc Marquez has one leg up on just everyone.

If we were expecting Jorge Martin's return to spice it up, we can now forget about it.

As for Maverick Viñales, I am hopeful he will also be competitive in Jerez.

[GuzziMoto]

5 minutes ago, p6x said:

I think a Ducati would have won.

Yes, Marc Marquez was very smart on this one. Bagnaia did pretty well to come back from afar, but this world championship seems to already have its favorite. I am not saying Bagnaia is out of contention, but it seems clear that Marc Marquez has one leg up on just everyone.

If we were expecting Jorge Martin's return to spice it up, we can now forget about it.

As for Maverick Viñales, I am hopeful he will also be competitive in Jerez.

It is hard to say what would have happened if Marc wasn't on a factory Ducati. But this is the first race where it may not have been a Ducati winning if Ducati had not signed Marc. Although it could have played out that Vinales won and then had the win taken from him. That would have been seriously cruel.

Yes, it was an impressive race from Marc, he had the speed but also the racecraft. However, history is shown that things can change pretty quick, sometimes in a single corner.

Vinales has always been a hot or cold racer, some races he shows incredible speed and other races he does not. Sometimes he even shows both in the same race. He really tends to need his ducks to line up to be fast, and he is not that good at lining his ducks up. Look at his results this year prior to this race, 16th, 12th, & 14th. Funny, even though his race was way better this time out after his penalty for the front tire pressure BS he ended up back where he usually is, 14th as I understand it. I would love to see Vinales competitive on a regular basis. But I would not hold my breath. His performance does show that the KTM really isn't that far out, they just need to hit on the right combination of setup. The bike is capable of it, the speed is there. KTM just need to find the right combination of what they have. Currently they are getting that combination wrong, the Michelin tires don't want to work for them (especially the new rear). I have had chatter issue on my front tire, but I have never experienced chatter at the rear. That is bizarre. I hope the coming switch to a different tire manufacturer helps even out the field. The Michelin tire has really become a king maker, with Ducati currently the only manufacturer able to wear that crown. The others are doing what they can with it, but it is always a struggle for them to minimize the issues with the tires. That isn't the best way to have a spec tire series.

[Lucky Phil]

Vinales only performed because his front tyre pressure was illegal. Same as other riders in previous years and have gotten away with it "sometimes" due to the one time only get out of goal card for previous seasons. Thats how stupid MotoGP is getting. Start with slightly lower front tyre pressure and you can go from a mid packer to the rostrum and even win as Bastianini did in Malaysia 2023. Out of the blue win due to front tyre under pressure.

When you see an out of the box performance don't go celebrating until the race pressures have been reviewed. KTM have got a hide whinging about the infringement as well as they gave themselves an unfair and major advantage but were caught out and Vinales penalised as he should have been. same as starting with a bike 10kg under the minimum weight or with a litre or 2 of extra fuel, big advantage. What we now have is F1 on 2 wheels unfortunately. It's all about the technology little to none of which translates into better road bikes. They went down the aero path instead of the electronics path. Aero is pointless on a road bike but electronic suspension and dynamic control is a major leap forward whose developments are slowed down due to being illegal in racing. Meanwhile money is poured into pointless aero which is what causes the overheating and front tyre wear problems. This is what happens when the "business model" considerations overrides the "racing"

Phil

Edited 16 hours ago by Lucky Phil

[Pressureangle]

8 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

Vinales only performed because his front tyre pressure was illegal. Same as other riders in previous years and have gotten away with it "sometimes" due to the one time only get out of goal card for previous seasons. Thats how stupid MotoGP is getting. Start with slightly lower front tyre pressure and you can go from a mid packer to the rostrum and even win as Bastianini did in Malaysia 2023. Out of the blue win due to front tyre under pressure.

When you see an out of the box performance don't go celebrating until the race pressures have been reviewed. KTM have got a hide whinging about the infringement as well as they gave themselves an unfair and major advantage but were caught out and Vinales penalised as he should have been. same as starting with a bike 10kg under the minimum weight or with a litre or 2 of extra fuel, big advantage. What we now have is F1 on 2 wheels unfortunately. It's all about the technology little to none of which translates into better road bikes. They went down the aero path instead of the electronics path. Aero is pointless on a road bike but electronic suspension and dynamic control is a major leap forward whose developments are slowed down due to being illegal in racing. Meanwhile money is poured into pointless aero which is what causes the overheating and front tyre wear problems. This is what happens when the "business model" considerations overrides the "racing"

Phil

They've constrained tire pressure...?
I'm not a follower of MGP, but I'm stunned stupid by this. 

[p6x]

35 minutes ago, Pressureangle said:

They've constrained tire pressure...?
I'm not a follower of MGP, but I'm stunned stupid by this. 

Michelin set the minimum pressure rule, because if underinflated, the tire may suffer a catastrophic failure that could put the rider's life at risk.

They have since come up with a new tire that no longer has that constraint; however Dorna did not authorize its introduction.

This was a safety measure that was a stop gap while developing a front tire that did not require it.

Everybody agrees that it is plain unacceptable to have race standings established after it has ended. Tech3 said they had not expected Maverick Viñales to race at the front, hence why they had set the pressure too low. Maverick himself said that front tire pressure was not his problem, even if there is a warning on the dash.

Why is Dorna not allowing the front tire?

[GuzziMoto]

As mentioned, they do have minimum pressure, in particular (the one that gets all the attention) is the minimum front tire pressure. Michelin set this minimum, in theory, to stop front tire failures that result from running air pressures too low. It must be said, however, that in the era of Michelin being the spec tire supplier there has not been a tire failure from running too low air pressure in the tire. On the other side of that coin, it turns out that best performance of the Michelin front tire occurs at a pressure below the minimum pressure set by Michelin. That makes no sense. Why would you design a tire that performs best at an air pressure you claim is below safety limits? To further complicate things, whether you are running out in front in clean air or behind another racer has a large impact on how hot your front tire gets, and how hot a tire gets directly affects the air pressure inside that tire (as temp goes up, air pressure goes up). So, racers are left trying to guess what front tire air pressure they need to start the race with to keep their front tire pressure above the minimum set by Michelin for at least 60% of the race. It is a balancing act, too much air pressure and they will be slow. Too little air pressure and they will get a penalty. It is not as simple as set it here or above and you are fine, as your front tire pressure will vary depending on whether you are out front or directly behind someone. This was famously shown recently when Marc Marquez pulled over to let his brother by so he could run directly behind him to bring up his front tire pressure. Once he had done enough of the race with his front tire pressure thus elevated, he passed his brother and ran off in front using a tire with air pressure below the minimum value. The rules are so stupid that what Marc did was perfectly legal. Had Vinales paid better attention to his front tire pressure, they typically have a display on their dash telling them what their front tire pressure is and / or whether it is above the minimum value, he may have avoided leading the laps he led to stay in behind Marc to keep his front tire pressure higher. We don't know the details, because they don't tell us things like how low his pressure was and for how much of the race it was. All we know is that his front tire pressure was below the minimum for more then 40% of the race.

What was messed up the most was, they should know all this real time, but they only announced the penalty for Vinales around two hours after the race, after he already stood on the podium and got his second place trophy. The rule is stupid, but that was incompetence.

[Pressureangle]

I miss the good 'ol days of consequences.