MotoGP

[p6x]

I did a little more digging on the tire subject, because I found odd that a less than optimal tire could ruin your entire race. In my mind, the pilote should be able to compensate, no?

Well, not any more!

According to Jorge Martin's interview, and I think it makes sense considering that this is what happened to each and every rider that sorts out a "bad" tire, all the electronics and settings on the bike are "calibrated" around the tire performance. To the point that if your tire does not have the expected grip, it throws out all the programs that makes the most out of the bike, curve after curve, straight after straight.

If I am not wrong, the pilot still has its input, but like on any new generation airplane, that input is actually supervised by the onboard computer, based on all the parameters that fluctuate turn by turn, on that particular track.

As he stipulated, the rear tire had not the grip the computer was calibrated for, and it took the limit performance from the bike. The same way it happened for Bagnaia the day before, and to many pilots during the season.

Michelin said it will review the data from Jorge's bike, but it is too late anyway.

That said, Digiannantonio won the race yesterday, and he still is so far, without a motorcycle for next season....

[GuzziMoto]

Martin had the speed in the sprint race, while Bagnia had a lack of rear grip. Then, come the main race on Sunday things seemed to be reversed. But the cause of the lack of grip may not be the same between those two things. It could be a matter of where the tire pressure was set, or other settings on the bike. It could also be a matter of the tire itself having already gone through a heat cycle without being used. Tires that are mounted and put in a tire warmer in expectation of being used but are not used go back into the pool of tires. They will be issued to someone else at a later race weekend. When you get a tire that has already been cycled through a heat cycle but not used you are not told. Michelin knows your tire has done a heat cycle already, but they don't tell you. These tires that have already been heated and later cooled tend to not offer the same grip, although Michelin insists there is no difference. Then there is also the lack of consistency between tires. That is something that will always exist. It was a thing with the previous tire supplier, although it does seem like a bigger variance exists with the Michelins.

That said, Martins issue looked like he spun the tire at the start (that is not a tire issue, that is a rider issue). Spinning the tire put him behind the eight ball from the start. He ended up having to race people he did not expect to race, and he was visibly flustered as well. So he may have abused his rear tire, and over race distance it lost grip and at the end he was toast. How much of that was a duff tire and how much of that was a duff performance by Martin is hard to say. What was obvious was that Bagnia put in a stellar performance and did exactly what he should have done, from the incredible start to finishing a safe second. His only mistake was when he nearly ran into the back of DiGi. That would have been a disaster. He really dodged a bullet there, was almost the Bagnia of old.

[Tomchri]

On 11/19/2023 at 10:28 PM, Tomchri said:

And do we like FG #49 was ordered to go to mapping 8, NO.

Cheers Tom.

 

Mappin 8, let Pecco win.

Cheers Tom. 

[KINDOY2]

“Then we decided on a signal to give. ‘And when you see this [Mapping 8] message, you need to go’.

“So I sat there [behind Bagnaia] and honestly, it was difficult because I didn’t see the pit board for half the race. I didn’t know how many laps were left. But then I saw ‘Mapping 8’ and I said, ‘now is the moment to go’. So I started to push and I did the move on Pecco.”

di Giannantonio's crew chief Frankie Carchedi likewise told pitlane reporter Simon Crafar: "We sent a message because he wanted to know when there were 5 laps left in the race. It wasn't anything special. I think people have got the wrong idea."

Ducati sporting director Paolo Ciabatti confirmed the message came as a surprise to the factory:

[GuzziMoto]

Clearly "Mapping 8" did not mean "Let Pecco win". It was pretty clear that "Mapping 8" was the message meant to tell DiGi it was time to go, as that was exactly what he did when he received that message. Also, given the history of that message at the factory Ducati team it seems unlikely Ducati would have picked that message to tell DiGi to let Pecco win. I don't think Ducati is that stupid. If they did want to throw team orders into it I am pretty sure they would have used a different message. But it seems there was no team orders, and that is what Ducati has been saying all along. Well, they do admit to one team order, don't knock other Ducati mounted racers down. That was a team order Ducati found out they needed.

I know people like a good conspiracy theory, but there is no there there. All you should get out of that is a chuckle, as it was funny.

[Tomchri]

Just selling the skin for what I bought it for. Comentators here clearly said, 8 means just keep the same speed, nothing fancy. Was it last used with Lorenzo and Andrea Dovizioso  in 2017 In Valenzia. But what do I know.    Looking  forward to next season for sure.

Cheers Tom.

[Speedfrog]

On 11/22/2023 at 1:03 PM, Tomchri said:

Just selling the skin for what I bought it for.

Hahaha, me like that expression . . . borrowing it for my little book of idioms!

Cheers Tom!

[p6x]

Michelin's Jorge Martin rear tire analysis came back... as you would have expected: the tire was exactly like it should have been. Nothing wrong was found. Look for another culprit, Jorge!

I have lost respect for Martin after the shenanigans he pulled on Bagnaia during Practice 2 today at Valencia. "A la Marquez"... not the kind of behavior you would expect from a gentleman racer. Then again, Marquez in Qatar, following Morbidelli during Q1, even when Franco was signalling that he did not want him to do that, Marquez kept staying behind. Ultimately, Franco did not attempt a fast lap. As you would expect Marquez said that whatever Martin did, it was not against the regulations, so it was not unsportsmanlike.

Bagnaia needs to go through Q1 again tomorrow; not because of Martin though...

Valentino Rossi is coming to Valencia to sort out Luca Marini's replacement for 2024. Uccio initially discarded that VR46 could use Digiannantonio's services since he did not really have the "right" profile for the team. But FDG is fourth on P2 today, while Bastianini, Alex Marquez, Luca Marini, and of course Bagnaia are all in Q1 tomorrow.

I am certain Bastianini will certainly try to help Bagnaia to Q2. I don't know if Ciabatti or Tardozzi are going to ask Alex and Luca to take one for the team. They don't have anything to lose if they let Bagnaia through.

Let's see what happens during Q1 and Q2 tomorrow.

[p6x]

14 points between the two leaders and title contenders.

Apparently another (wrong) tire choice allowed Martin to win the Sprint and Bagnaia to finish fifth.

Valentino Rossi got the solution; he said that for the main race, Bagnaia should simply copy whatever tire choice Martin will make. He also said that in today's MotoGP, a slightly under-performing tire adds the tens of second which put you out of the reach of the front runners.

[p6x]

Francesco Bagnaia will be 2023 MotoGP world champion if:

• if he finishes within the 5 firsts, independently of Martin's position.
• if he finishes between or at sixth to tenth position providing Martin does not win the race
• if he finishes between or at eleventh to fourteenth position with Martin finishing no better than third
• if he finishes fifteenth or worse providing Martin is outside of the podium

Jorge Martin will be 2023 MotoGP world champion if:

• If he wins the race and Francesco Bagnaia finishes no better than sixth
• if he finishes second and Francesco Bagnaia finishes no better than eleventh
• if he finishes third and Francesco Bagnaia finishes no better than fifteenth.

I don't see how Bagnaia can lose the championship if not for a race incident. Martin has no leeway. He will have to attack for the win. Bagnaia only needs to administer based on Martin's position; to play it safe, he only needs to be fifth overall, and the victory is in the bag.

[p6x]

Unfortunately, Jorge Martin got desperate and confused speed with haste. Clipping the back of Bagnaia one time should have been a warning, but he ignored it.

So he deprived the public from a grand finale by exiting the race quickly, taking Marc Marquez with him for good measure. Marc Marquez already had a first race incident with Marco Bezzecchi resulting in Marco crashing.

Jack Miller was looking good to win the race, that would have been a MotoGP win on a third different bike brand. That same turn 10 that had just previously caused Binder to lose top spot was fatal. Another DNF.

So the last race did not live up to the build up and expectation. It fell flat on its face. Bagnaia did a home run, even if FDG came back to challenge.

Let us see tomorrow what is going to happen when Marc Marquez tests the Ducati GP23 for the first time.

[LaGrasta]

Wow, such an exciting race! Being a BB33 fan, it was soooo exciting. Until 2024

[LowRyter]

I just read that a NASCAR team was taking over the satellite Aprilia team after DORNA banned the incumbent.  

[Lucky Phil]

On 11/27/2023 at 2:08 AM, p6x said:

Unfortunately, Jorge Martin got desperate and confused speed with haste. Clipping the back of Bagnaia one time should have been a warning, but he ignored it.

So he deprived the public from a grand finale by exiting the race quickly, taking Marc Marquez with him for good measure. Marc Marquez already had a first race incident with Marco Bezzecchi resulting in Marco crashing.

Jack Miller was looking good to win the race, that would have been a MotoGP win on a third different bike brand. That same turn 10 that had just previously caused Binder to lose top spot was fatal. Another DNF.

So the last race did not live up to the build up and expectation. It fell flat on its face. Bagnaia did a home run, even if FDG came back to challenge.

Let us see tomorrow what is going to happen when Marc Marquez tests the Ducati GP23 for the first time.

Brains beats bravado sums it up. Martin gave a perfect example of how not to conduct a race strategy in his situation. Unbelievably he got up blaming Marquez for his off and before that seemed to expect Vinales to just step aside and let him through after he ballsed up his race at turn one. Not to mention his dodgy re-entry to the track just before turn 2.

Factory rider class? I don't think so, not yet anyway.

Phil 

[LaGrasta]

Phil, you mentioned letting him by, I know it's not often done in MotoGP. In SX, this happens surprisingly a lot. I don't believe it's team orders, just those recognizing they're not in the hunt.

With this said, I sort of thought they should have allowed him by, considering it was a last chance, championship deciding race. There are argument for both sides, but the selfish in me wanted to see the fight!