MotoGP

[GuzziMoto]

I don't know if they will have a second race in the US, but if they did, my favorite track would be Road America. It would take a lot of money to get it up to FIM standards, but the race would be epic. Realistically, Indianapolis is the only track that is close to standards and capable of hosting enough fans to make it worth while. The races they had in Indy were well attended and it was an enjoyable race to go to. It was also well located for people to get to. Barber could be possible, but it would be a bad location and a boring race. Plenty of decent tracks here, like NJMP and PittRace, but I don't see them as being up to MotoGP standards. Saying we will have a second race and actually having a second race are two different things.

[Joe]

4 hours ago, GuzziMoto said:

I don't know if they will have a second race in the US, but if they did, my favorite track would be Road America. It would take a lot of money to get it up to FIM standards, but the race would be epic. Realistically, Indianapolis is the only track that is close to standards and capable of hosting enough fans to make it worth while. The races they had in Indy were well attended and it was an enjoyable race to go to. It was also well located for people to get to. Barber could be possible, but it would be a bad location and a boring race. Plenty of decent tracks here, like NJMP and PittRace, but I don't see them as being up to MotoGP standards. Saying we will have a second race and actually having a second race are two different things.

I always thought that Barber's was built for MotoGP style races but can't due to the inability to run fast enough top speeds. Maybe most of the tracks listed fall into this category, except Indianapolis Motor Speedway and Circuit of the Americas Austin. That doesn't mean most of them couldn't get altered to MotoGP specs.

[GuzziMoto]

1 hour ago, Joe said:

I always thought that Barber's was built for MotoGP style races but can't due to the inability to run fast enough top speeds. Maybe most of the tracks listed fall into this category, except Indianapolis Motor Speedway and Circuit of the Americas Austin. That doesn't mean most of them couldn't get altered to MotoGP specs.

Yeah, Barbers is way to tight for MotoGP. Road America is probably the fastest track in this country. It's problem would be safety at the sort of speeds MotoGP bikes would run there. But it would be epic. Indy has a good mix of speed and safety for bikes, and it has a few options on how to run. It's main shortcoming is how flat it is. There is near zero elevation changes there. Both PittRace and NJMP would be interesting options, but would need serious money spent to get them up to spec. PittRace has a very nice flow to it with great elevation changes. And it is a nicer track then many US tracks. NJMP is in NJ, so it is flat and boring in that respect. Then there is VIR, they could run the full course, that would be pretty wild. But not really likely.

[Lucky Phil]

On 11/30/2023 at 10:30 AM, p6x said:

Just for the sake of the discussion, with regards to the Martin / Marquez collision, from looking at the video, Martin attempts to squeeze in the inside past Marquez. Marquez sees it coming, and release the brakes; Martin no longer has the ability to pass Marquez, however because of his residual speed, he can't make the turn. He would have had intended to be in front of Marquez, not behind. Marquez could have let him go through, and pick him up as Jorge Martin would have not been able to keep the apex anyway.

For Bezzecchi and Marquez, I could not find a replay of the crash;

Here's a YT video showing some stills. It appears that Bezzecchi is ahead of Marquez.

 

I've seen footage from a bunch of different angles and any other rider would have been given a long lap penalty no doubt at all. He's a bit like Johnny Rea in WSB, a protected species.

 

Phil

[LowRyter]

9 hours ago, GuzziMoto said:

I don't know if they will have a second race in the US, but if they did, my favorite track would be Road America. It would take a lot of money to get it up to FIM standards, but the race would be epic. Realistically, Indianapolis is the only track that is close to standards and capable of hosting enough fans to make it worth while. The races they had in Indy were well attended and it was an enjoyable race to go to. It was also well located for people to get to. Barber could be possible, but it would be a bad location and a boring race. Plenty of decent tracks here, like NJMP and PittRace, but I don't see them as being up to MotoGP standards. Saying we will have a second race and actually having a second race are two different things.

I thought Barber was originally built to FIM standard?  I don't what it would take to upgrade it.  I don't why you would say the location is bad?  It's perhaps one of the greatest motorcycle venues in the world if not the greatest.  The track was designed for motorcycle racing, I'd love to see the GP bikes go at it.  No, bikes can't run 200 there but it's very fast track with fast corners.

So far as Indy.  It didn't make.  Simple as that.  And that's the problem.  Not enough fans to pay the freight.  I'm not sure how COTA pays because the crowds are the same as Indy.  Regardless, the bill will have to be a split and cash back to COTA for a 2nd race whether Indy, Barber, Sears Point, or that Tilke track west of Knoxville TN.

[LowRyter]

I read that the old Tech 3 Yamaha team offered Alex Marquez a contract.  Yamaha killed it then saying no one in Marquez family would be allowed ride for Yamaha so long as Rossi was a Yamaha rider.  

[GuzziMoto]

13 hours ago, LowRyter said:

I thought Barber was originally built to FIM standard?  I don't what it would take to upgrade it.  I don't why you would say the location is bad?  It's perhaps one of the greatest motorcycle venues in the world if not the greatest.  The track was designed for motorcycle racing, I'd love to see the GP bikes go at it.  No, bikes can't run 200 there but it's very fast track with fast corners.

So far as Indy.  It didn't make.  Simple as that.  And that's the problem.  Not enough fans to pay the freight.  I'm not sure how COTA pays because the crowds are the same as Indy.  Regardless, the bill will have to be a split and cash back to COTA for a 2nd race whether Indy, Barber, Sears Point, or that Tilke track west of Knoxville TN.

Barber was built to a high standard at the time it was built. But the layout is not suitable for MotoGP bikes. It is way to slow and tight. MotoAmerica Superbikes are really too big and fast for that track. Barber is a great track to ride on a motorcycle. Doing a track day there would be fun. But it doesn't race well. It is a hard track to pass on, and it is already hard to pass in MotoGP. It is a very pretty track, lots of money was spent on it. But as a race track, I don't agree that it is the best track we have. Watch a MotoAmerica superbike race there and watch one from Road America and tell me which one is more exciting to watch. And the issue with the location is what is around it, as well as how close it is to the already existing round at COTA. Having a second round there would not really expand accessibility of MotoGP races in this country that well. A race that is closer to people who aren't close to COTA would be better. Also, the track has to be able to hold enough people, I don't think Barber would hold enough fans (not that you could get enough fans to go there).

Indy was doing well until they added the COTA race, the attendance at Indy was higher then COTA. But over 100,000 people in a track that holds 300,000 people is going to look thin. By motorcycle racing standards the attendance at Indy was huge, but by Indy standards it was light. In the end, Indy lost interest after they added COTA. I don't know if they would be interested in trying again. In fact, I am skeptical that we will get a second race. But if we do, there aren't a lot of options for where to hold it.

[GuzziMoto]

13 hours ago, LowRyter said:

I read that the old Tech 3 Yamaha team offered Alex Marquez a contract.  Yamaha killed it then saying no one in Marquez family would be allowed ride for Yamaha so long as Rossi was a Yamaha rider.  

I read that as well. Not sure if it is true or not, but it is not surprising if it is. The part I am not sure I believe is the part about someone signing Alex Marquez to ride their bike because they wanted him. I can believe Yamaha said no Marquez on their bikes, but it is hard to believe that someone wanted Alex Marquez on their bike. Especially at that time when Alex was horrible. 

What Gresini did makes sense, get Alex on their bike with the hope that Marc would follow. And it worked. Brilliant. But for RNF/ Tech3 / Petronas to sign Alex just for his talent, not for the hope of getting Marc? That seems hard to believe.

[LowRyter]

5 hours ago, GuzziMoto said:

Barber was built to a high standard at the time it was built. But the layout is not suitable for MotoGP bikes. It is way to slow and tight. MotoAmerica Superbikes are really too big and fast for that track. Barber is a great track to ride on a motorcycle. Doing a track day there would be fun. But it doesn't race well. It is a hard track to pass on, and it is already hard to pass in MotoGP. It is a very pretty track, lots of money was spent on it. But as a race track, I don't agree that it is the best track we have. Watch a MotoAmerica superbike race there and watch one from Road America and tell me which one is more exciting to watch. And the issue with the location is what is around it, as well as how close it is to the already existing round at COTA. Having a second round there would not really expand accessibility of MotoGP races in this country that well. A race that is closer to people who aren't close to COTA would be better. Also, the track has to be able to hold enough people, I don't think Barber would hold enough fans (not that you could get enough fans to go there).

Indy was doing well until they added the COTA race, the attendance at Indy was higher then COTA. But over 100,000 people in a track that holds 300,000 people is going to look thin. By motorcycle racing standards the attendance at Indy was huge, but by Indy standards it was light. In the end, Indy lost interest after they added COTA. I don't know if they would be interested in trying again. In fact, I am skeptical that we will get a second race. But if we do, there aren't a lot of options for where to hold it.

Barber's not tight.  Its fast and flowing but there's no room to go 200mph.  That's why it's difficult to pass.  It was considered too small for Indycars but it's turned out to be a very racy track. 

Barber at one time proposed extended the main straight to get WSBk race there, this would entail moving the perimeter road.  Personally, I think it would be a great race for all the reasons you cite.  The MotoGP bikes are much more competitive than MA which only have 3 bikes that bolt from the field.  Seeing the big bikes bunch together would be a good show IMO.  We'll never know unless they run some practice or actually race there.

The crowd size is not an issue.  MotoGP draws about 40k on race day, whether Laguna, Indy or COTA.  The bigger issue is how will Dorna cut the fees to make two races?

RA would need millions to make it FIM compliant.  The place is out in the country, remote but nice for camping.  There are fewer fan amenities than Barber.  It's an old school traditional  road course in the country.  I've actually ridden pace laps (not track days) on both tracks.  RA is wicked fast with long straights and flowing curves, Barber is momentum fast with lots of hills and very fast corners. 

Bottomline, little chance for RA.  Now, the latest info is this will be in "northern" US.  So, Indy.  They draw folks from NE and Canada.  The big issue is that Roger Penske isn't going to pay for them to race there.  And COTA won't pay when there's another race.  Been there, done that.

[GuzziMoto]

1 hour ago, LowRyter said:

Barber's not tight.  Its fast and flowing but there's no room to go 200mph.  That's why it's difficult to pass.  It was considered to small for Indycars but it's turned out to be a very racy track. 

Barber at one time proposed extended the main straight to get WSBk race there, this would entail moving the perimeter road.  Personally, I think it would be a great race for all the reasons you cite.  The MotoGP bikes are much more competitive than MA which only have 3 bikes that bolt from the field.  Seeing the big bikes bunch together would be a good show IMO.  We'll never know unless they run some practice or actually race there.

The crowd size is not an issue.  MotoGP draws about 40k on race day, whether Laguna, Indy or COTA.  The bigger issue is how will Dorna cut the fees to make two races?

RA would need millions to make it FIM compliant.  The place is out in the country, remote but nice for camping.  There are fewer fan amenities than Barber.  It's an old school traditional  road course in the country.  I've actually ridden pace laps (not track days) on both tracks.  RA is wicked fast with long straights and flowing curves, Barber is momentum fast with lots of hills and very fast corners. 

Bottomline, little chance for RA.  Now, the latest info is this will be in "northern" US.  So, Indy.  They draw folks from NE and Canada.  The big issue is that Roger Penske isn't going to pay for them to race there.  And COTA won't pay when there's another race.  Been there, done that.

Clearly we will never agree. And that is fine. It doesn't really matter as the odds of MotoGP coming to Barber are pretty slim and have nothing to do with what you or I think. But here is a basic comparison, the longest straight at Barber is 1600 feet, a bit over a 1/4 mile. The rinky-dink track by me, Summit point, has a better then half mile long front straight (2900 feet). Back in the old days the original Road Atlanta had a roughly mile long back straight (it is slightly shorter now). COTA back straight is 3326 feet long. The front straight at Road America is 4400 feet, and you come onto it fast. Barber is flowing, but fast?

As I said, it doesn't matter. I don't think MotoGP would pick Barber as a second track to run a race at along side COTA. It is a better facility then most tracks in this country, I would agree with that. And having the museum on site like Indy has helps. But it lacks any decent length straights for bikes that are made to run 200+ mph. I agree Road America is not getting the race. But the track itself would be spectacular for a MotoGP race. I would go to see that. But it isn't likely to happen. It sounds like they would want a track in the north, and I don't think Putnam Park will be it, nor would Grattan or even Mid_Ohio. We really only have two tracks currently that could do it, and one is already hosting a race. Maybe someone will build a new track, that seems to be a popular way to go. Just please don't get Herman Tilke to design the track.....

[LowRyter]

@GuzziMoto Tilke is building a track 50 miles west of Knoxville.  

[GuzziMoto]

56 minutes ago, LowRyter said:

@GuzziMoto Tilke is building a track 50 miles west of Knoxville.  

Yeah, And he is one of the top track designers for some reason. He was part of the team that designed COTA, wasn't he?

I am not sure the tracks he designs race well, though.  

[docc]

On 12/8/2023 at 1:00 PM, LowRyter said:

@GuzziMoto Tilke is building a track 50 miles west of Knoxville.  

I-40 corridor? That would be round Crossville. Seems like an odd, unlikely location (?)

Fifty miles southwest of Knoxville is I-75 corridor (headed toward Atlanta), around Athens. South'n Spine Raid territory!

[LowRyter]

On 12/9/2023 at 6:10 PM, docc said:

I-40 corridor? That would be round Crossville. Seems like an odd, unlikely location (?)

Fifty miles southwest of Knoxville is I-75 corridor (headed toward Atlanta), around Athens. South'n Spine Raid territory!

Rockwood, TN.  population 5k  

Rumor in the east this could be the spot?  Really?

 

https://www.autoweek.com/racing/more-racing/a45654666/new-racing-facility-in-tennessee-to-feature-30-degree-banking/

 

 

[docc]

10 minutes ago, LowRyter said:

Rockwood, TN.  population 5k  

Rumor in the east this could be the spot?  Really?

 

https://www.autoweek.com/racing/more-racing/a45654666/new-racing-facility-in-tennessee-to-feature-30-degree-banking/

 

 

Striking distance!

But "private club?"