MotoGP

[GuzziMoto]

2 hours ago, LowRyter said:

I'm not fan of MM93 but following another rider doesn't bother me.  Interfering during qualifying and in the race, dangerous moves and taking rides out, another issue.   It's is racing.   Drafting and sizing up another rider, following lines, well that's racing 

One of the aspects of riders looking for a tow off other guys is they are cruising around off the pace and often in the way, making themselves a hazard to the other guys who are not engaging in such foolishness. This issue is bad in MotoGP, but even worse in the smaller classes. It is not just the following of another rider, it is the waiting for another rider to come by for them to follow that presents a hazard to others.

[GuzziMoto]

One thing that they could do to help reduce the traffic from people cruising around waiting for someone to get a tow off of would be to change where timing and scoring starts timing a lap in qualifying. If the timing line for qualifying was perhaps somewhere like between turns one and two the lap would start quicker without the rider being in the way. It could also reduce the issue of the riders not wanting to abuse the tires too much on the warmup lap. If that spot doesn't work right, the timing line could be moved to just about anywhere that it needs to be. It is not uncommon for the timing line in qualifying to be other then at the start / finish line for cars. Moving it reduces the amount of time racers spend either getting up to speed or coming back down.

[p6x]

@GuzziMoto I think common sense should prevail.

There are riders who don't give a toss about being followed, others have a strong view upon it. I remember Jorge Lorenzo who had a specific sign when he was being followed.

I read a commentary from Mike Doohan about this very topic; he said that this was not new, and pilots trailing existed before. However, he said the gentleman's agreement was if the frontman did not like it, and asked you to not do it, then you would stop.

Clearly, times have changed....

[GuzziMoto]

Yes, times have changed. And so we end up with this going on. There is a good chance someone will get hurt eventually. It is an issue not just because some riders don't want to be followed but also because there are safety concerns with racers cruising around off the pace looking for the tow. There have already been incidents because of that.

Personally, I don't have a dog in the fight. But I do find it funny that such highly rated racers do such a novice thing. Makes me think they are not as talented as people think they are.

[KINDOY2]

4 hours ago, GuzziMoto said:

Yes, times have changed. And so we end up with this going on. There is a good chance someone will get hurt eventually. It is an issue not just because some riders don't want to be followed but also because there are safety concerns with racers cruising around off the pace looking for the tow. There have already been incidents because of that.

Personally, I don't have a dog in the fight. But I do find it funny that such highly rated racers do such a novice thing. Makes me think they are not as talented as people think they are.

Can you imagine Roberts( either) Hailwood, Hayden, Sheene,  riding like that..waiting around for a Tow so they could make qualifying?...Shameful.

[LowRyter]

3 hours ago, KINDOY2 said:

Can you imagine Roberts( either) Hailwood, Hayden, Sheene,  riding like that..waiting around for a Tow so they could make qualifying?...Shameful.

No, there weren't but a few bikes fast enough to keep up with those guys.  So you couldn't draft Hailwood because he had the only 6 cyl Honda  in the race.  None of those racers had more than three or four other bikes in the field that were competitive. 

Part 2.  Racing was fatal in those days.  It's much safer now.  The riders take more chances and crash with regularity now.  Almost all the riders will go down once on a weekend.  In those days, even one lowside could kill or cripple.

Part 3.  Aerodynamics wasn't really a thing then.

Part 4.  During the race they drafted like they do now- even if it was among two riders.

[Lucky Phil]

Personally I'd like to go to the old WSB and current BSB qualifying format where the rider has one warmup lap and then a lap to put down his fastest time. Eliminates the towing bullshit, the yellow flag on the hot lap rubbish and the race grid reflects the true order of who has the outright speed. Currently you can and do have riders with 3rd and 4th row raw speed on the front two rows a lot of the time due to nothing more than getting a tow during qualifying. They then get in the way and hold up the genuinely faster rider at the race start for 5 or 6 laps and ruin his race. 

 

Phil 

[audiomick]

3 hours ago, LowRyter said:

Part 2.  Racing was fatal in those days.  It's much safer now.

For which a lot of the credit goes to Barry Sheene.

Of topic, I know, but credit where it is due.

[KINDOY2]

3 hours ago, LowRyter said:

No, there weren't but a few bikes fast enough to keep up with those guys.  So you couldn't draft Hailwood because he had the only 6 cyl Honda  in the race.  None of those racers had more than three or four other bikes in the field that were competitive. 

Part 2.  Racing was fatal in those days.  It's much safer now.  The riders take more chances and crash with regularity now.  Almost all the riders will go down once on a weekend.  In those days, even one lowside could kill or cripple.

Part 3.  Aerodynamics wasn't really a thing then.

Part 4.  During the race they drafted like they do now- even if it was among two riders.

I'm not talking about "DRAFTING".. I'm talking about chicken shit waiting to go out and targeting specific rider's to annoy...I was around then..., and racing myself.

[KINDOY2]

3 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

Personally I'd like to go to the old WSB and current BSB qualifying format where the rider has one warmup lap and then a lap to put down his fastest time. Eliminates the towing bullshit, the yellow flag on the hot lap rubbish and the race grid reflects the true order of who has the outright speed. Currently you can and do have riders with 3rd and 4th row raw speed on the front two rows a lot of the time due to nothing more than getting a tow during qualifying. They then get in the way and hold up the genuinely faster rider at the race start for 5 or 6 laps and ruin his race. 

 

Phil 

Exactly

 

[audiomick]

An anecdote on the side, sort of related to "who is fast and who is hitching a ride", and Barry.

Barry Sheene moved to Australia for the climate. He stayed in touch with the racing scene, and was a commentator for motorcycle races on Australian television (and was very good at it..). I read in a motorcycle magazine that he got to ride one of the then (some years after his retirement from racing) competitive bikes. It might have been Mick Doohan's Honda, but I'm not sure. According to the report in the magazine, Barry went out on the bike in jeans and sneakers, and pulled a lap time that would have got him a position well up on the grid.

[LowRyter]

23 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

Personally I'd like to go to the old WSB and current BSB qualifying format where the rider has one warmup lap and then a lap to put down his fastest time. Eliminates the towing bullshit, the yellow flag on the hot lap rubbish and the race grid reflects the true order of who has the outright speed. Currently you can and do have riders with 3rd and 4th row raw speed on the front two rows a lot of the time due to nothing more than getting a tow during qualifying. They then get in the way and hold up the genuinely faster rider at the race start for 5 or 6 laps and ruin his race. 

 

Phil 

Actually the Q format is sometimes more exciting than the races.  It's super exciting watching them all come into the chex going for the Pole or just to advance to Q2.  So don't change that!

I'll agree MM has been tailgating since I first saw race at COTA when he was following #46 around on the first practice as a rookie.  He won his first race that weekend.  The best thing I've seen him do at COTA was when his primary bike quit, he ran over the pit wall and got his backup bike, made it around with just a second before the chex, and set the lap record.  But I've never liked the guy once he ruined Rossi's last chance for a title in '15.  The FIM shoulda sanctioned him and given him the meatball.  They've allowed him to run roughshod over the entire series.  But with supreme talent comes corrupt power I suppose. 

Unfortunately, we don't get the qualification on TV here anymore.  And I'm two cheap to buy the streaming package <Guzzi content> 

[LowRyter]

20 hours ago, audiomick said:

For which a lot of the credit goes to Barry Sheene.

Of topic, I know, but credit where it is due.

Kenny Roberts was one of the first to complain as well.  As soon as he went to Europe.  And it must've been  REALLY bad because he came from American Flat Track!  

 

Sheene and Nixon #7 & #9 !!!!!!!   What a pair of characters  

[p6x]

I have some information to share with those who keep an eye on MotoGP;

First, the new Trackhouse Racing owner, Justin Marks is fully committed to MotoGP and is hopeful to add a second GP in the US. We already discussed this possibility in this thread. However, it will not be Laguna Seca which is currently fighting a lawsuit brought by environmentalists, and anyhow, is no longer admissible to host a MotoGP.

Trackhouse did his Racing colors unveiling in Los Angeles, and is possibly going to promote an additional MotoGP race in the USA, at the Flatrock Motorsports Park and Motorclub in Tennessee.

When? I am not certain. However the Kasakhstan MotoGP is most likely going to be cancelled again this year, and the Argentinean one too.

The Sokol race track is about one hour and thirty minutes off Almaty, and there are no accommodation close by. Which would force the MotoGP dedicated personnel to a three hours commute every day. The Argentinean race was financially sponsored by the previous Argentinean administration. A new president was elected in December 2023, and he has cut down all the non-essential spendings.

Will we see a second GP in the USA in 2024?

The second information that you may not be aware about, is that today was a test day for World SBK in Portimao Portugal. With many MotoGP riders as guests... including Francesco Bagnaia, Marco Bezzecchi, Franco Morbidelli, Fabio di Giannantonio, Enea Bastianini riding production Ducati Panigale V4-S.

Marc Marquez was there too, and Luca Marini. However they did not have transponders on the bike they were using.

The fastest WSBK on that day was Nicola Bulega, 1:39.932 seconds; the only man below the 1:40; followed by Razgatlioglu and Rea;

The fastest MotoGP pilot was Francesco Bagnaia, 3.271 seconds behind the leader. He was just before Bradley Smith. All the other MotoGP pilots were slower than the WSBK counterparts, on conventional bikes of course.

[LowRyter]

I'd guess that Indy is the only track that could hold a GP as just a date.  I'm not sure that Montreal or Mexico F1 tracks would be acceptable.  I suppose Sears Pt, Laguna and Barber are too short but either would be great.