MotoGP

[GuzziMoto]

I suspect Quartararo feels slighted because last year he took out Aleix Espargaro with a similar move and was rightly penalized. But to be fair, Quartararo's move was way more aggressive. He threw it in there really late and it was never going to work. I have not studied Marini's move but initially it appeared to be just a case of loosing the bike while inside another rider. Perhaps Marini should also get a penalty, but from first glance it did not look overly aggressive. But there's the rub. Judgement calls are tricky. Where is the line that, if you cross it, you get a penalty? Some moves, like Marc's, are clearly over the line. But other moves aren't. Where is the line between hard racing and dangerous riding? I am not sure there should be a penalty every time a racer hits or crashes another racer. Some incidents are racing incidents. But figuring out where the line between the two is can be tricky.

[p6x]

6 hours ago, GuzziMoto said:

I suspect Quartararo feels slighted because last year he took out Aleix Espargaro with a similar move and was rightly penalized. But to be fair, Quartararo's move was way more aggressive. He threw it in there really late and it was never going to work. I have not studied Marini's move but initially it appeared to be just a case of loosing the bike while inside another rider. Perhaps Marini should also get a penalty, but from first glance it did not look overly aggressive. But there's the rub. Judgement calls are tricky. Where is the line that, if you cross it, you get a penalty? Some moves, like Marc's, are clearly over the line. But other moves aren't. Where is the line between hard racing and dangerous riding? I am not sure there should be a penalty every time a racer hits or crashes another racer. Some incidents are racing incidents. But figuring out where the line between the two is can be tricky.

I agree with you.

You cannot start penalizing each time a pilot attempt a pass that did not go well. It is somewhat part of the expectation and show provided by MotoGP.

But when there is a pattern, then there should be some ways to curb behaviors before someone injury.

My main grief is that the rationale behind sanctions are never made public by the stewards panel.

 

[Tomchri]

Honda sells 17mil bikes, Ducati ca 60k, KTM, Gas Gas, Husquarna ca 280k. Still the european companys make the Honda look like, yeah.  If MM was riding a Duc, probably boring racing. Yeah I like his way of riding curves, he need his elbows fit for fight.  Realy enjoyed Miller having fun with the KTM. Sort of pointing a finger to Ducati.     

Cheers Tom.

[KINDOY2]

This team is a shame

 

https://motograndprix.motorionline.com/motogp-2023-honda-fa-reclamo-contro-la-penalita-inflitta-a-marc-marquez/?fbclid=IwAR1NDTCArEfpRYnBmvBsd_G71zJdHuvr5ZDyAmjb5G_2gwl7u6ItEQmqdgk

[GuzziMoto]

1 hour ago, KINDOY2 said:

This team is a shame

 

https://motograndprix.motorionline.com/motogp-2023-honda-fa-reclamo-contro-la-penalita-inflitta-a-marc-marquez/?fbclid=IwAR1NDTCArEfpRYnBmvBsd_G71zJdHuvr5ZDyAmjb5G_2gwl7u6ItEQmqdgk

Is that about Honda appealing the revision of the penalty to make him take it at whatever the next race he is racing is?

I am not surprised the team appealed the adjustment to the penalty, I kind feel they had to. But I also think their appeal will fail as I think it is completely within the rights of the FIM to make Marc take the penalty at a later race if he doesn't take it at the race they (mistakenly) specified. If nothing else, they could simply issue a new penalty to Marc when he doesn't take the existing penalty at Argentina. So, one way or another Marc will end up taking the penalty when he next lines up on a race track to race.

[p6x]

1 hour ago, KINDOY2 said:

This team is a shame

 

https://motograndprix.motorionline.com/motogp-2023-honda-fa-reclamo-contro-la-penalita-inflitta-a-marc-marquez/?fbclid=IwAR1NDTCArEfpRYnBmvBsd_G71zJdHuvr5ZDyAmjb5G_2gwl7u6ItEQmqdgk

I would say DORNA is at fault since they altered the penalty serving judgement from "2LLP at the Argentinean GP" to "2LLP at the next participating GP".

They can't rewrite the rules as they go.

Independently on how I feel about the penalty, the rules are the rules. They announced them to the pilots prior to the races; they have to stick to their own words and lick their wounds.

I personally would have picked a departure from pit lane. Or a back spot on the grid for both starts.

[GuzziMoto]

21 hours ago, p6x said:

I would say DORNA is at fault since they altered the penalty serving judgement from "2LLP at the Argentinean GP" to "2LLP at the next participating GP".

They can't rewrite the rules as they go.

Independently on how I feel about the penalty, the rules are the rules. They announced them to the pilots prior to the races; they have to stick to their own words and lick their wounds.

I personally would have picked a departure from pit lane. Or a back spot on the grid for both starts.

Perhaps, I am not sure if their rules allow them to adjust penalties. But I am pretty sure their rules would allow them to assess a new penalty to Marc for not serving the first penalty. If he gets a penalty and doesn't serve it they can certainly issue another penalty. Or their rules may allow them to adjust the existing penalty, I don't know. So, either way he is likely to have to serve the penalty.

Whether the penalty is right, that is another question. I would like a more severe penalty for Marc. He has a long established record of making contact with other racers. But he is rarely penalized for the contact. So, I would rather a more severe penalty but I am happy he is being penalized at all.

[p6x]

6 hours ago, GuzziMoto said:

He has a long established record of making contact with other racers. But he is rarely penalized for the contact. So, I would rather a more severe penalty but I am happy he is being penalized at all.

Many think the same. That he is often getting away because of his notoriety. Note that before him, the same was said about VR46.

I think DORNA is stuck between a rock and a hard place; trying to rebuild an interest for MotoGP, they need Marc Marquez. I feel that he is the main act of the GP. Everyone wonders if he is going to be able to throw a spanners in the Ducati works. Therefore, they have to thread carefully with what they do to him; I bet he knows it too....

I respect that after all his injuries, he still has the will to win. He makes 30 million Euros a year, plus bonuses and sponsors. He certainly does not need to continue to race.

However, he needs to play by the same rules as everyone else.

[LowRyter]

3 hours ago, p6x said:

Many think the same. That he is often getting away because of his notoriety. Note that before him, the same was said about VR46.

I think DORNA is stuck between a rock and a hard place; trying to rebuild an interest for MotoGP, they need Marc Marquez. I feel that he is the main act of the GP. Everyone wonders if he is going to be able to throw a spanners in the Ducati works. Therefore, they have to thread carefully with what they do to him; I bet he knows it too....

I respect that after all his injuries, he still has the will to win. He makes 30 million Euros a year, plus bonuses and sponsors. He certainly does not need to continue to race.

However, he needs to play by the same rules as everyone else.

Dorna (Spanish) let MM get away with it '15 when he was screwing with Rossi and they penalized Rossi for the championship race to the back to grid.   They've created this monster and have no way to deal with him now.  He's crashed so many riders and himself and now the they're floundering by penalizing him a couple of long laps even though he's been out of control  and a danger to himself and anyone he's racing against. 

[Twin AH]

On 3/27/2023 at 4:04 PM, KINDOY2 said:

 MM didn't have top 10 pace but qualified on pole by getting a tow, and then when the race starts surprise surprise he can't keep up, he then reverts to his default setting of red mist and over riding and the inevitable happens. 

Yup you nailed it....................

[GuzziMoto]

I have a massive amount of respect for Marc's talent. He is clearly extremely talented. But he is not perfect, he is not an overly precise racer, one who can do the same thing over and over like clockwork. He is also not a racer who has much respect for his fellow racers. He seems remarkably willing to hit other racers. Contact does occasionally happen when two racers go for the same piece of the track. But sometimes he seems to go out of his way to hit other racers on his way by, like when there is a gap and he seemingly takes it but hits the other guy even though the gap was big enough for him to make it through without hitting the guy he is passing. I feel like that is on purpose so that his reputation intimidates the other racers. The other way Marc seems to make contact is in incidents like this past weekend where he looks to have made a massive mistake and hit other people. Had he been on his own, either out front or in the back, likely it would have only been one of those many "amazing saves" we see from Marc. But when he is in a pack of riders those mistakes go from a possible amazing save to a bad day for other racers.

To paraphrase one of the other racers from that day, a lot of racers went into that corner in a tight pack, only one was unable to do so without hitting others.

[p6x]

Marquez has been towed so many times now, that it is to be expected; he actually crashed in practice 2 while in one of these "tows" behind Fabio Quartararo.

The new aerodynamics on the motorcycles have exacerbated the need to be as high as possible on the race starting grid. This is one of the main complaint from Quartararo and others, but specially Fabio who says he cannot overtake.

Before the Stegosaurus backs, pilots starting from the back of the grid would manage to make their way back to the front of the race. Like it is still possible in Moto2 and Moto3. But in MotoGP, qualifying outside of the two front rows often imply being outside of the podium.

Some pundits anticipate the next time the rules are going to be reviewed, aerodynamic appendices will be forbidden.

But yes, Marquez has his own way of over-exceeding his motorcycle's limits, causing chaos around him with Dorna's forgiveness.

Anyway, DORNA has informed Portimao that next year's MotoGP won't happen unless they improve the safety of the track; changing the gravel in the speed traps, and installing air fences everywhere. To avoid a repeat of what happened to Pol Espargaro.

[GuzziMoto]

1 minute ago, p6x said:

Marquez has been towed so many times now, that it is to be expected; he actually crashed in practice 2 while in one of these "tows" behind Fabio Quartararo.

The new aerodynamics on the motorcycles have exacerbated the need to be as high as possible on the race starting grid. This is one of the main complaint from Quartararo and others, but specially Fabio who says he cannot overtake.

Before the Stegosaurus backs, pilots starting from the back of the grid would manage to make their way back to the front of the race. Like it is still possible in Moto2 and Moto3. But in MotoGP, qualifying outside of the two front rows often imply being outside of the podium.

Some pundits anticipate the next time the rules are going to be reviewed, aerodynamic appendices will be forbidden.

But yes, Marquez has his own way of over-exceeding his motorcycle's limits, causing chaos around him with Dorna's forgiveness.

Anyway, DORNA has informed Portimao that next year's MotoGP won't happen unless they improve the safety of the track; changing the gravel in the speed traps, and installing air fences everywhere. To avoid a repeat of what happened to Pol Espargaro.

I really like the flow of the Portimao track, and hope they will make the needed safety improvements to keep racing there. It is an awesome track. But basic safety aspects like rubble in the gravel trap can't be ignored. The "gravel" in the gravel traps there is crazy. The size of it is insane.

I would love for them to outlaw the aero crap. I don't think it adds to the racing in any way. It only adds to the expense. And they are supposedly against excessive expense. The aero does make the bikes faster, but not in a way that adds to the show.

[Twin AH]

Well boys and girls IMHO respectful racing like living is directly proportional to that individuals loss and consequences ............... take the TT pilots for example.

Lots of speed... lots of real danger..... lots of real men with respect for good reason if you want to have a chance of coming out of that one alive( with all the gold) you wont be riding like MM 

For better or worse that's probably the way it needs to be.    

Ciao

[GuzziMoto]

22 hours ago, Twin AH said:

Well boys and girls IMHO respectful racing like living is directly proportional to that individuals loss and consequences ............... take the TT pilots for example.

Lots of speed... lots of real danger..... lots of real men with respect for good reason if you want to have a chance of coming out of that one alive( with all the gold) you wont be riding like MM 

For better or worse that's probably the way it needs to be.    

Ciao

That has been a gripe of some riders, all the paved run off around the track has led to some racers being less careful about it. The minimum penalty for blowing a corner is not always what it used to be