MotoGP

[LowRyter]

SO many crashes late in the race.  They mentioned weepers.  So the track was drying out but the weepers were soaking through and couldn't be seen my the riders?  That's awful.  Seeing three bikes crash one after the other was pretty bad. 

[p6x]

Joe Roberts is working hard to get a spot in MotoGP next year.

Finished second in Moto2, and he is currently the top of the championship standings. Good job!

[LaGrasta]

Wow, what a weekend, Sprint crashes and overtakes were crazy, and exciting! Great GP as well!

[LowRyter]

Smokin' Joe.  I'm a believer 

[p6x]

I also watched the two rounds of the Moto America in Georgia.

I have one guy to support, Loris Baz.... lol....

He lost his seat in World Superbike last year, and I was surprised to find him in Moto America, on a Ducati.

So plenty of French at Moto America: Gagné, Beaubier x 2, Baz....

[p6x]

A verified information: Marc Marquez will be testing a thumb actuated rear brake on his GP23. Rationale is that both Bagnaia and Martin use this on their respective GP24, and it apparently helps to control the bike in acceleration phase.

He said he will not use it at Le Mans, the next race, but he wants to have the opportunity to check it.

Now that we are starting to see more of Marc Marquez with each race, I am ruling out a manufacturer change for 2025. Marc Marquez is going to continue with Ducati;

I am guessing that at the very minimum, he will want a last update bike, but I am certain he is most likely considering riding alongside Francesco Bagnaia next year. While Ducati has said they don't need Marc Marquez, they can't ignore the publicity stunt they would get to have him in the factory team.

Since Yamaha has confirmed they will have four motorcycles next year, Ducati is going to run six bikes instead of eight. I can see Jorge Martin joining Fabio Quartararo, unless Honda snatches him?

[p6x]

The new MotoGP rules starting from 2027 have been announced:

1. Engine Capacity reduced to 850 cc
2. Tank capacity reduced from 22 liters to 20 liters, 11 liters for the short race
3. Fuel will need to be 100% synthetic
4. No ride height or hole shot devices allowed. (this was a really high contention point for Ducati)
5. GPS data of all the riders available to all the teams
6. Only one aerodynamic modification allowed for the rear of the bike.

I don't know what the GPS data entails. I suppose it means that you will get the speed only. Not the bike sensor's output.

The lesser capacity may resolve into less requirement for aerodynamics the way it is today. I forgot to say, every engine has to be four cylinders, and four cylinders only.

Current MotoGP engines are around 300 bhp. I wonder what the reduction in capacity will equate to.

[audiomick]

22 minutes ago, p6x said:

I don't know what the GPS data entails.

The first thing that occurs to me is that all the teams will be able to see at all times where all of the bikes are on the track. And be able to calculate speed information out of that.

Not entirely useless information, I would say.

[GuzziMoto]

47 minutes ago, p6x said:

The new MotoGP rules starting from 2027 have been announced:

1. Engine Capacity reduced to 850 cc
2. Tank capacity reduced from 22 liters to 20 liters, 11 liters for the short race
3. Fuel will need to be 100% synthetic
4. No ride height or hole shot devices allowed. (this was a really high contention point for Ducati)
5. GPS data of all the riders available to all the teams
6. Only one aerodynamic modification allowed for the rear of the bike.

I don't know what the GPS data entails. I suppose it means that you will get the speed only. Not the bike sensor's output.

The lesser capacity may resolve into less requirement for aerodynamics the way it is today. I forgot to say, every engine has to be four cylinders, and four cylinders only.

Current MotoGP engines are around 300 bhp. I wonder what the reduction in capacity will equate to.

The reduction in engine capacity should change the aerodynamic needs, but it won't make them go away. It will make the bikes harder to ride. It likely won't reduce speeds anymore then it did last time they tried smaller engine capacity. As to safety, the smaller engine capacity bikes were arguably less safe as they meant racers had to carry more speed through the corners as the bikes lacked the torque of the larger engine displacement. That tends to lead to more highsides.

I am sad that they aren't banning aero, but okay with banning the ride height devices. But the reduction of engine capacity seems misguided, like they don't remember history. The worst thing about all this is we are at a place in time where everyone is so close, and a rules change like this will likely spread the field out as some teams / manufacturers will get it more right then others will.

[LowRyter]

 I read they are restricting aero to some degree or at least setting parameters based on the max width allowed for the front of the bike.  

[p6x]

@audiomick The changes will only be required in 2027! they have two years to get it right.

I don't know what to think about the reduced engine capacity, but they had to find a way to reduce power. I remember the 800cc fiasco of 2007. This time, it is 850cc, and 20 years later. Possibly the same issues are going to pop up, engines will need to rev higher to compensate for the loss of torque. The 800cc were more prone to high side, but 20 years after, the electronics have evolved too.

We will see if they get it right this time.

I found this article about the 800cc...https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2016/may/mcn-plus---rip-800s-sport/

[GuzziMoto]

15 hours ago, LowRyter said:

 I read they are restricting aero to some degree or at least setting parameters based on the max width allowed for the front of the bike.  

The aero changes are fairly small. "The maximum permitted width of the high portion of the front fairing Aero Body will reduce from 600mm to 550mm, the maximum rear end height will reduce from 1250mm to 1150mm, the foremost point of the front fairing (nose) will be moved back by 50mm, and the rearward taper of the front fairing aero appendices will also narrow.". So, a reduction in width from 600mm to 550 mm (less then 10% reduction in width) as well as moving the front allowable part of the nose back 50mm and reducing the max height of the tail section 100mm (less then a 10% reduction in height of the tail section). Not very big aero changes.

I would rather see serious reductions in aero. You will never make it go away, once that genie is out of the bottle it doesn't go back. But I would love to see all wings and appendages banned. Restrict aero to the surface of the fairing only. Eliminate these add on aero parts. They will still chase aero, but make it a much smaller part of MotoGP. But they aren't listening to the fans. Not many fans seem to like aero, it makes the racing less exciting and most people seem to find the aero look ugly. But the teams like it because there is speed there. Some teams like it more then others, because some teams are better at it.  But aside from the negative impact on the racing and looks, aero is expensive. What happened to all that talk of making MotoGP affordable?

[GuzziMoto]

A good take on the new rules by someone you have heard of (although I would have thought for sure you would have heard of me....)

https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/1048024/1/stoner-only-engineers-benefit-most-2027-motogp-rules

Stoner responded: “The ONLY improvement to the current rules is the banning of the ride height and Holeshot device. Nothing else will benefit this sport for the future, only the engineers will get the benefits."

[p6x]

I don't know if it is just gossip, but BMW is rumored to maybe, possibly, be interested to get into MotoGP in 2027; the current objective remaining to win the WSBK title this year.

Joining in 2027 makes sense, because on paper, everyone is starting from scratch. But if looking at the details, it is not as easy as to put a 850cc engine in a frame. Honda and Yamaha are illustrating the struggle today. Even the mighty BMW may not be enough to get a jump start.

2027 is far away, and I am looking forward to seeing what is going to happen at Le Mans this weekend. What Marquez has shown at Jerez de la Frontera bids well for the next races. It's now obvious that he is looking for a seat in the Ducati factory garage. Will that happen? Ducati's pre-season declaration they were not interested to contract Marquez' services is most likely obsolete.

[GuzziMoto]

1 hour ago, p6x said:

I don't know if it is just gossip, but BMW is rumored to maybe, possibly, be interested to get into MotoGP in 2027; the current objective remaining to win the WSBK title this year.

Joining in 2027 makes sense, because on paper, everyone is starting from scratch. But if looking at the details, it is not as easy as to put a 850cc engine in a frame. Honda and Yamaha are illustrating the struggle today. Even the mighty BMW may not be enough to get a jump start.

2027 is far away, and I am looking forward to seeing what is going to happen at Le Mans this weekend. What Marquez has shown at Jerez de la Frontera bids well for the next races. It's now obvious that he is looking for a seat in the Ducati factory garage. Will that happen? Ducati's pre-season declaration they were not interested to contract Marquez' services is most likely obsolete.

Some speculate that the new rules will make it more appealing for someone like BMW to join the fray. Personally, I don't see how the new rules would make it more appealing. The new rules will make it harder to get it right, and more expensive. While banning the ride height devices does reduce costs, the restrictions on fuel would likely offset that. And the tightening of the rules on aero makes that aspect more expensive, generally when you tighten rules on some aspect of it that makes development of that aspect more expensive because you have to put more effort in to getting it right. Fewer rules about an aspect of it allows for it to be easier to get right. Making something harder to get makes it more expensive to get. Same thing with the rules reducing the number of engines, that makes it more expensive, not less expensive. Very little in the new rules package makes it less expensive to field a bike.

As to Marc Marquez, only time will tell. Nothing is sure yet. That said, I would be surprised to see Ducati sign him to the factory seat. That would surely upset their apple cart. Just having him on the Gresini team has already cost them some precious championship points.

More concerning is the statement by Lin Jarvis that there will be a second pair of factory Yamahas on the grid next year. I wonder who is drawing that short straw. And it will make the seat available even more rare as that will basically take two competitive seats out and replace them with a pair of seats on a Yamaha. So, two good seats will become two field fillers. Fewer good seats will be on the grid next year if what Jarvis said is true. Gresini seems like one of the possible options to run Yamahas.