MotoGP

[p6x]

The Sprint race was unpredictable; I did not watch it however Dorna now publishes snippets of what happens during the race on YouTube.

They are really trying hard to entice people to subscribe to watch the races.

In any case, they lost my patronage when they tried to do what Adobe is currently under legal trouble for. Automatic re-enrollment, unsubscribe options impossible to find, forcing you to phone. The new subterfuge of many subscription based businesses. Making it impossible to cancel.

Edited August 3 by p6x

[p6x]

8 hours ago, LowRyter said:

Tried to watch the Sprint race today, instead it was NASCAR

I got it...

I did too, but here's what came out...

 

Edited August 3 by p6x

[p6x]

We saw some pilots attempting a tow during the MotoGP qualifications today that sparked some protests and according to Jorge Martin, the direct cause for not doing better during Q2, as he slowed down to break his tail and his tires cooled down.

Bagnaia complained that it should be regulated but I don't see how that can be accomplished practically.

[Lucky Phil]

19 hours ago, p6x said:

We saw some pilots attempting a tow during the MotoGP qualifications today that sparked some protests and according to Jorge Martin, the direct cause for not doing better during Q2, as he slowed down to break his tail and his tires cooled down.

Bagnaia complained that it should be regulated but I don't see how that can be accomplished practically.

Quali is a joke these days with towing and the general danger of slowing riders and also yellow flags ruining fast laps. When a rider gets a tow to improve his grid position it just means a genuinely faster riders race is compromised due to an inferior starting position which these days is a big deal. I've been saying for years that MotoGp should go to the old WSBK quali format of the 1 lap shoot out. I warm up lap and one flying lap alone on the track. Then you see who's genuinely faster without a tow and yellow flag issues. Marquez says it's boring for the fans but I disagree. It was exciting in WSBK and it's exciting at the Bathurst Supercars for the top 10 shootout. Would be way better than the joke qualifying has become with riders that don't have the actual speed promoting themselves up the grid due to getting a tow then getting in the way of riders that are genuinely faster in the first 3rd of the race.

Phil 

[p6x]

Valentino Rossi gave his opinion of the Marc Marquez transfer in "L'Equipe".

He said that the whole of the VR46 academy were surprised that Ducati could deviate from their usual recruiting path for the factory team.

I found it surprising that he could not understand a business decision that actually made a lot of sense. Especially coming from him, who has insofar shown to be very astute and successful in his business ventures. From creating the VR46 academy, to designing and manufacturing most of the pilots' paraphernalia.

I understand that he has a grudge on Marc Marquez, but the Ducati choice is logical. Before anything else, MotoGP is a business. They are successful, so they want to keep the momentum with onboarding the biggest name in the paddock.

If Marc Marquez returns to success and win his 9th World Championship, it will be on a Ducati.

[GuzziMoto]

On 8/9/2024 at 11:12 AM, p6x said:

Valentino Rossi gave his opinion of the Marc Marquez transfer in "L'Equipe".

He said that the whole of the VR46 academy were surprised that Ducati could deviate from their usual recruiting path for the factory team.

I found it surprising that he could not understand a business decision that actually made a lot of sense. Especially coming from him, who has insofar shown to be very astute and successful in his business ventures. From creating the VR46 academy, to designing and manufacturing most of the pilots' paraphernalia.

I understand that he has a grudge on Marc Marquez, but the Ducati choice is logical. Before anything else, MotoGP is a business. They are successful, so they want to keep the momentum with onboarding the biggest name in the paddock.

If Marc Marquez returns to success and win his 9th World Championship, it will be on a Ducati.

And if Marquez not only fails to win a 9th title but tanks the brands shot at another title? Because this "business decision"  could go either way. Also, if Marc wins a 9th title I think most people will credit Marc, not Ducati. Where as if Marc can't win a 9th title on a Ducati that will make Ducati look less then great. The two main possibilities are Marc wins a 9th title, in which case people simply point to Marc and his massive talent, where as if he fails those same people will assume there is some conspiracy or other such BS reason because Marc is the greatest rider and for him to fail must be on something else. From a business standpoint their choice to upset their own apple cart as they have done seems like a high risk / low reward choice. So I get people not seeing the logic. But some fans will think it makes sense.

[p6x]

1 hour ago, GuzziMoto said:

And if Marquez not only fails to win a 9th title but tanks the brands shot at another title? Because this "business decision"  could go either way. Also, if Marc wins a 9th title I think most people will credit Marc, not Ducati. Where as if Marc can't win a 9th title on a Ducati that will make Ducati look less then great. The two main possibilities are Marc wins a 9th title, in which case people simply point to Marc and his massive talent, where as if he fails those same people will assume there is some conspiracy or other such BS reason because Marc is the greatest rider and for him to fail must be on something else. From a business standpoint their choice to upset their own apple cart as they have done seems like a high risk / low reward choice. So I get people not seeing the logic. But some fans will think it makes sense.

All of those arguments will equate to bring the spotlight on Ducati, which I believe is the objective.

I am yet to be convinced that Marc Marquez has retained that edge that made him a tad better than the rest of the top of the crop. Notwithstanding that his Honda was tailor-made to suit his strong points.

Now, that only three year current GP will be in the mix, instead of four, and six total GPs instead of eight, the field will most likely be in his favor. Two of the major riders have gone to other brands, diluting the strength of his opponents.

His only real internal adversary will/may be Francesco Bagnaia. The third GP25 will be handled by Fabio DiGiannantonio, and he maybe at the same lever as the other two, including the VR46 team's first time with a same year package.

As for Enea Bastianini and Jorge Martin new machinery, it is difficult to say if they will be able to be at the front right from the get-go.

 

[PJPR01]

Or Marc doesn’t have the right chemistry with the bike…no matter how good it is.  Some folks bond with a bike and others don’t.  You would not say that a V11 or a Griso or a Norge or Stelvio are not great bikes but they don’t always match the taste or style of riding a person wants.

[p6x]

23 minutes ago, PJPR01 said:

Or Marc doesn’t have the right chemistry with the bike…no matter how good it is.  Some folks bond with a bike and others don’t.  You would not say that a V11 or a Griso or a Norge or Stelvio are not great bikes but they don’t always match the taste or style of riding a person wants.

To be honest, he has shown remarkable adaptation to the Gresini GP23 this season.

He is yet to win one, but he has so far be the top rider on the GP23. In a slightly less efficient environment that a factory team.

Next year, with Factory Ducati's top-notch entourage, with a current year machinery, it will be on him.

I don't know if it is true, but Dall'Igna said that this year, the competitiveness difference between the GP24 and GP23 is more pronounced than between the GP23 and GP22. Marquez and DiGiannantonio have also said the same. Marquez also said that he still makes mistakes if he just puts himself in strictly racing mode, as his natural Honda reflexes take over.

You know what they say: habits are difficult to get rid of once they have become your routine.

[GuzziMoto]

I would not dismiss the other racers, and now that a number of really good racers have left Ducati for other brands because of decisions Ducati made surrounding their promotion of Marquez, it seems likely that Ducati's dominance will be diminished. To dismiss those shifts of rider talent to other brands seems short-sighted. The Aprilia and KTM have advanced to the point that either one could win the title with the right racer on board. And who knows, with this new shift in talent the right pairing could easily happen at either Aprilia or KTM. If one of the ex-Ducati guys ends up beating Ducati next year Ducati will only have themselves to blame.

Marc is currently the best guy on a GP23 Ducati.  But he is only just faster then other much less talented racers like his brother, Alex. Read into that what you want, but clearly Marc is not as dominant on the GP23 compared to other guys on the GP23 as he was back on the Honda. His talented seemed to allow him to get more out of the Honda vs other guys on the Honda then it does on the Ducati.

[Lucky Phil]

There's not a racer on the planet that can currently win a race on the KTM let alone a title. KTM overestimated the performance of their bike and Ducati has taken a significant step in 2024. I still can't understand how any company would consider employing Vinales the ultimate soggy cornflakes man. 9 seasons in MotoGP, 10 wins and best finish in the Championship of 3rd 5 years ago, plus deliberately trying to destroy the engine in his bike in a childish fit of peek. Yet teams are cuing up to give him a ride. Shows you the state of decision making in MotoGP these days. 

Once the expectation kicked in and got into Acostas head the results have tapered off which was fairly predictable. He's done a Zarco in his first season. Next year when he's genuinely expected to produce the podiums he'll find it even harder. It's gong to be interesting to see which ex Ducati rider can actually deliver on the track next season once they have departed Ducati and are now on lesser bikes.

Phil 

Edited August 12 by Lucky Phil

[GuzziMoto]

I would agree with you about Vinales, KTM have likely wasted a factory seat when they only have four. But I disagree with you about how close KTM is to winning. They are tenths of a second over a lap off the pace of Ducati. That is close enough that a different rider, a different set up, or even Michelin showing up with a different tire, can make the difference. That is the nature of racing. Even Honda and Yamaha are close pace-wise. But Aprilia and KTM are really close. A gnat fart could make the difference for them.

Riders going to a different brand can go either way. They can gell well and do better then they did the previous season, or they can fail to adapt and struggle. The KTM is more different vs the Aprilia. The KTM has a very different chassis nature, using the steel chassis. It has better stability under braking, and does well in low grip tracks. The bike struggles when they can't use its strengths, like at Silverstone. I think the KTM would be harder to adapt to then the Aprilia. The Aprilia is more like the other bikes, and is a lot like the Yamaha used to be only with more power. A rider that can use that conerspeed could really do well on it. If Vinales and Aleix can do as well as they do on it, I assume a more talented racer could do better on it. But you do need to be a racer that can use the extra conerspeed. Oliveira came from the KTM, where he did well but not by using more cornerspeed. He has struggled to adapt to the style needed for the Aprilia. Sadly for him it seems he is going to Yamaha, I don't expect much from him there.

[guzzigary]

Miller close to signing with Pramac Yamaha…..

[Lucky Phil]

17 hours ago, GuzziMoto said:

I would agree with you about Vinales, KTM have likely wasted a factory seat when they only have four. But I disagree with you about how close KTM is to winning. They are tenths of a second over a lap off the pace of Ducati. That is close enough that a different rider, a different set up, or even Michelin showing up with a different tire, can make the difference. That is the nature of racing. Even Honda and Yamaha are close pace-wise. But Aprilia and KTM are really close. A gnat fart could make the difference for them.

Riders going to a different brand can go either way. They can gell well and do better then they did the previous season, or they can fail to adapt and struggle. The KTM is more different vs the Aprilia. The KTM has a very different chassis nature, using the steel chassis. It has better stability under braking, and does well in low grip tracks. The bike struggles when they can't use its strengths, like at Silverstone. I think the KTM would be harder to adapt to then the Aprilia. The Aprilia is more like the other bikes, and is a lot like the Yamaha used to be only with more power. A rider that can use that conerspeed could really do well on it. If Vinales and Aleix can do as well as they do on it, I assume a more talented racer could do better on it. But you do need to be a racer that can use the extra conerspeed. Oliveira came from the KTM, where he did well but not by using more cornerspeed. He has struggled to adapt to the style needed for the Aprilia. Sadly for him it seems he is going to Yamaha, I don't expect much from him there.

What you say is correct in that the difference between bikes is infinitesimal as it is with riders pretty much. But both are still enough to have an impact on results. All these guys and bikes are pretty amazing but it's gravitating more and more into a technically weighted sport. The riders ability to "make the difference" is diminishing fast. Have a think about this. The average GP race track has around a 95 second lap and 14 corners give or take. These days if you are 1 second behind in qualifying you're nowhere, in a different race but in reality you(or maybe the bike) is literally 1% slower than the guy on pole. Now think about the guys that are 1/2 a second off the pace, 1/2 a percent slower or 2 or 3 hundredths of a second per corner slower each lap. I does my head in, I don't know how riders cope with that. Everyone is on the limit all the time. Not sure it's ultimately a great thing in reality long term.     

[GuzziMoto]

Well, the Austrian GP came and went. It was not an overly exciting race, but it was an excellent ride by Pecco, showing why he is already a world champion. Jorge Martin did an amazing lap in qualy, but sadly he did not have that pace in the race. Had he not messed up in the sprint Martin might have had something for Pecco there, but that mistake missing the chicane and the bigger mistake by not slowing down to loose a second was pretty costly. How did he not see that coming?