"Le Mans Sleeper" V11 in Tonti frame

[activpop]

I love the lines of this bike, so much so it is now sitting in my barn. Looked for a long time before a well kept one finally one popped up reasonably close to home. That muffler will be first to go. Then I can call it a custom build...

[Joe]

1 hour ago, audiomick said:

Without the "more desireable", rather "bearable": The current retro Z900 Kawasaki is pretty enough, but I would have to change the bars immediately. The are too reminiscent of the absurd street fighter asthetic for my taste, and ergonomically pretty senseless in my opinion.

The Thruxton is pretty, but I don't like parallel twin motors.

Otherwise, the list is very, very short. There is a modern design Kawasaki that I would be interested to ride, the H2 SX SE. A technically interesting package that would be ideal if it had a shaft drive. Unfortunately not really pretty, but a bit less ugly than some others.

In the Guzzi stable: the V7 850 is quite pretty, but I'd like one with clip-ons.

The V85 TT is not my cup of tea; I don't like chook-chasers.

The V100 is a lot prettier in person than in the photos, I reckon. It would be ok, although the styling is a little too "general use motorcycle" to get me excited.

AudioMick-

My father has owned the Kawasaki Z900 and currently owns the V7 850. Both bikes are lookers, the Kawi is another level of refinement and power. The v7 is still a nice bike, underpowered but nice. I would own both. I have a buddies that own 4 different V85TT's and they seem to swear by them for traveling. 

[Art]

Unfortunately, around here we have "bobbers". These really are too ugly to look at.

They are not built, they are the opposite.

[Joe]

Could be worse 

 

[audiomick]

3 hours ago, Art said:

Unfortunately, around here we have "bobbers".

The funny thing is, the motivation for bobbers was origionally the same as for cafe racers: cut off everything that is not necessary for function to make the thing lighter and therefore faster and more agile.

It's just that the "bobber style" somehow got hung up on tyres that look like they were manufactured in 1938 and various other more or less ludicrous "features".

[guzzler]

5 hours ago, Joe said:

Could be worse 

 

Ha ha 

I remember this craze...

There were quite a few OUT THERE versions in sixties early seventies  ChCh NZ!

Bloody hell, I can still see my mate pedaling like mad up our steet back in '73! This belongs in a Nostalgia thread ha ha 

Cheers 

[footgoose]

1 hour ago, guzzler said:

Ha ha 

I remember this craze...

There were quite a few OUT THERE versions in sixties early seventies  ChCh NZ!

Bloody hell, I can still see my mate pedaling like mad up our steet back in '73! This belongs in a Nostalgia thread ha ha 

Cheers 

Haha, me too, tho quite a few years earlier. Same heart and soul, just a different day, and look.

On topic, we have a few makers of spine frame customs on the forum tho the names escape me. They made some beautiful personalized versions. Altering bikes is not everyone's cuppa. And, truth be told, most factory bikes need improvement. Comments about this or that alteration can sometimes, shall we say, diminish ones enthusiasm for sharing. I always try to support someone's endeavor at art. Even if not to my taste, respect is usually due. It's not my fkng bike is it? "well let's see what you can bloody do mate." usually rings in my head before I nit-pick.

A recent custom example is @Lucky Phil 's lovely greenie project. More of an engineering custom than a "look" custom, but certainly looks the part of what he wanted to accomplish I think, beyond just sticking that gorgeous motor into a relatively standard Sport. My guess is you were going for 'the Sport they should have built' ?

The Sport/LM is a very unique design. An anomaly in factory backed releases imo. The Italians are known for it. Some work some don't. (cough centauro) The Daytona and early 1100 Sports will set the mark for value in the spine line. Eventually our beloved Marabese versions will be "discovered". Close ... but till then... it's your bike isn't it.

[Speedfrog]

Right on point @footgoose ^^^^^^  The critic is easy, I think anyone's efforts to modify, embellish or otherwise improve a vehicle to satisfy their own vision and desire is highly commendable and should be respected, be it a motorcycle, a car, a bicycle or an airplane...

As beautiful and satisfying as production designs can be, there is always room for improvement and personalization, one just has to look at how extensive the farkle market is. 

The result might not be to everyone's taste but, as I said before, if we all had the same taste, life would be rather dull.

And isn't that the essence of customization in the first place -"a modification made to something to suit a particular individual".

 

Of course there are times where some efforts might seem misguided >>>

[pete roper]

What people choose to do aesthetically or 'Artistically' to their bikes concerns me not a jot and I fully agree with your assessment that such things are subjective and if people want to do such things? Knock yerself out!

That doesn't mean that I can't mock them as ugly and most importantly it doesn't mean that what they have done will be either 'Special' or indeed work in an engineering or mechanical sense.

So many people make absurd and impossible claims about performance and functionality it just shits me to tears. I've tried to explain many times why the 8V 'Nuovo Hi-Cam' can't be made to make power and torque figures that can genuinely only be made by much more sophisticated engines but this is either ignored outright or some picture of a 'Dyno Chart' will be produced to 'Prove' the point!

Sorry, but trying to use the laws of physics to argue against ignorance and stupidity is a fools errand. Dunno why I even bother apart from the fact I don't want the gullible being taken in by charlatans.

With the old pushrod lump it's even more frustrating. Especially when stuck in a Tonti frame with a five speed gearbox and pre V11 final drive. You can, reliably, make mid eighties RWHP from an 1100. The factory erred on the side of conservatism and the donk makes about 76 in the V11. Yes you can get it to make more, but at a price.

Now imagine what it's going to be like putting that power, or more, through a clutch, gearbox and driveline designed to handle not much more than 50? Its life span will in the words of some nineteenth century philosopher, be Brutish and Short!

So what does that mean? Either these people have managed to change the laws of physics and the sciences of metallurgy, and engineering! Or? They are full of shit!

I reiterate, if people like these things as 'Art'? Fine. Knock yerself out. To me they are obnoxious gobshitery! NOBODY HAS TO AGREE WITH ME!

 

[Speedfrog]

People just wanna have some fun Pete!

You've made your point very clear and I think most everyone here will agree with your assertion of all things mechanical related to the Guzzi engine. You've been around these a long time and a lot of folks heed your advice like the gospel, me included, but I bet that three quarter of the motorcyclist population at large doesn't have a clue nor do they give a hoot about what's going on in their engine.

As Guzzi legacy riders, your audience, we are an aging bunch and as such we tend to care for and try to understand our machine, but we are not all mechanics, we started as riders, young and careless - Insouciant - with a sparkle in the eye and unattainable dreams... With time, that insouciance has all but eroded and been traded for bad knees and insomnia but the sight of a beautiful bike can bring the sparkle back and the dream is still alive.

Surely Pete, you were young and careless once...

You like to present yourself as an old drunken bastard and you have a way with words that is rather unique and entertaining but frankly those angry people-bashing rants of yours are tiresome.

Of course, like everyone else, you are entitled to your opinion and free to express it in any way you'd like, I just find it sad that in the context of a community such as this, where I'd like to think we're all getting along, you couldn't be a bit more tolerant and light hearted.

IMHO... Not cool!

[4corsa]

...not to mention regarding the mechanical and performance side, 90% of riders today are only capable of extracting MAYBE 75% of what their bikes are capable of, even if "only" 80 hp, and that's fine as long as they're enjoying themselves. So what's the point of spending a hundred hours on internal engine mods to extract another 10 hp, unless you're racing the bike at the track?

[Joe]

On 7/27/2023 at 7:49 PM, docc said:

While the lines of that exhaust are not disturbing (as some can be), and no "bandages" (relief!), something about the uninterrupted radius and clean sweep of the original V7 Sport is comforting to me . . . a gentle, liquid flowing . . .

Comparing that Exif custom to anything on today's showrooms seems a bit an "apples and eggcrates" exercise.

For what it’s worth, I rode behind this V7 at the KSR. Josh could still get his old Tonti framed Guzzi, which is in excellent mechanical original spec condition (read not perfect aesthetically) to haul @ss with a respectable pace. Carburetors, drum front brakes and all. 

[Scud]

On 7/27/2023 at 4:32 PM, 4corsa said:

Since we're all having fun with this, 'would love to hear from the forum members which current bikes you could buy from the showroom today that you think is a more desirable design than this. I will confess that my other bike is a Thruxton RS Showcase, but I'd take this custom build with the aluminum tank and better proportions any day.

 

Like someone else posted, I would go for the MV Augusta Superveloce over something like this. I'd also consider the Triumph Thruxton. As for nearly new models (which you can buy used from a showroom today), I really like the Husqvarna 701 Vitpilen - if you want a lightweight hooligan cafe bike, I think Husqvarna nailed it (about 75HP and 350 pounds). But now they only offer the 401 versions (about 45HP and 330 pounds).

I did see a custom bike I really liked recently, it was an early Honda CB750 street legal recreation of a competition racer from the era. It was for sale on Craigslist, but now I can't find it (maybe sold).

As for customs... I do like looking at them, and appreciate the effort. And sometimes think I'd like to try building one. I have stashed away the majority of parts needed (including a titled V11 LeMans frame). But I keep thinking of the cost/effort and wonder if I'd really be happy with the outcome. The only design that almost got me motivated was to try to make the V11 look like the original Ice-Blue Lemans (but then I thought, why not save up and buy a classic?). For me, the idea of a custom build seems to be moving from a dream to a hoard of stuff I will likely not use.

[guzzler]

14 hours ago, Speedfrog said:

Right on point @footgoose ^^^^^^  The critic is easy, I think anyone's efforts to modify, embellish or otherwise improve a vehicle to satisfy their own vision and desire is highly commendable and should be respected, be it a motorcycle, a car, a bicycle or an airplane...

As beautiful and satisfying as production designs can be, there is always room for improvement and personalization, one just has to look at how extensive the farkle market is. 

The result might not be to everyone's taste but, as I said before, if we all had the same taste, life would be rather dull.

And isn't that the essence of customization in the first place -"a modification made to something to suit a particular individual".

 

Of course there are times where some efforts might seem misguided >>>

Just needs some leather tassels hanging off the bars to finish it off......

I agree, some customs are good and some like matey's efforts above not so much!

Ha ha, many mainstream riders look at us Guzzi nuts as a little er different too by the way....

Cheers

 

[LowRyter]

7 hours ago, Scud said:

Like someone else posted, I would go for the MV Augusta Superveloce over something like this. I'd also consider the Triumph Thruxton. As for nearly new models (which you can buy used from a showroom today), I really like the Husqvarna 701 Vitpilen - if you want a lightweight hooligan cafe bike, I think Husqvarna nailed it (about 75HP and 350 pounds). But now they only offer the 401 versions (about 45HP and 330 pounds).

I did see a custom bike I really liked recently, it was an early Honda CB750 street legal recreation of a competition racer from the era. It was for sale on Craigslist, but now I can't find it (maybe sold).

As for customs... I do like looking at them, and appreciate the effort. And sometimes think I'd like to try building one. I have stashed away the majority of parts needed (including a titled V11 LeMans frame). But I keep thinking of the cost/effort and wonder if I'd really be happy with the outcome. The only design that almost got me motivated was to try to make the V11 look like the original Ice-Blue Lemans (but then I thought, why not save up and buy a classic?). For me, the idea of a custom build seems to be moving from a dream to a hoard of stuff I will likely not use.

 

 

It's a copy of the V11 Lemans but not a good one.  In fact, .........