Clutch and side stand switches

[Yam350]

My bike doesn’t have the clutch switch and the wires under the tank have been joined together. The side stand switch is still there and appears to be connected to the loom although the actual switch is zip tied to the stand bracket and as such the plunger does not contact the stand. Pressing the plunger doesn’t effect running so I’m assuming the switch is broken. I’d like to reinstate the stand switch but I can live without the clutch switch so my question is, are they connected in any way or will they work independently? In other words can I replace the stand switch and leave the wires for the clutch switch connected?

[docc]

5 minutes ago, Yam350 said:

My bike doesn’t have the clutch switch and the wires under the tank have been joined together. The side stand switch is still there and appears to be connected to the loom although the actual switch is zip tied to the stand bracket and as such the plunger does not contact the stand. Pressing the plunger doesn’t effect running so I’m assuming the switch is broken. I’d like to reinstate the stand switch but I can live without the clutch switch so my question is, are they connected in any way or will they work independently? In other words can I replace the stand switch and leave the wires for the clutch switch connected?

Good question, @Yam350!

They are completely separate. The clutch switch prevents starter engagement when open. When functional, it is pressed "open" when the lever is not pulled in (clutch engaged), and is Normally Closed when the lever moves away from the switch (clutch disengaged).

The Side Stand switch provides power to the Run Switch with the bike in gear. The switch closes with the side stand up. When the stand is down, the switch pressed "open" and bike will only run through the Neutral Switch/ Middle relay.

Since the bike can run in gear through the Side Stand Switch, it is the clutch switch (or the operator!) that prevents the bike from starting in gear.

If your bike runs in gear regardless of the Side Switch Position, either (yes) it is faulty, or some previous owner has defeated it along the course of the wiring.

[Yam350]

Hey Docc, many thanks. I suspected that they were separate. I can live without the clutch as I always disengage the clutch when starting but would like the stand switch to work.

[docc]

Just now, Yam350 said:

Hey Docc, many thanks. I suspected that they were separate. I can live without the clutch as I always disengage the clutch when starting but would like the stand switch to work.

If you can get to the connector, simply unplug it and check resistance through the switch with an Ω meter. Should be Normally Closed and go open when the plunger is pressed.

With the switch correctly positioned, the adjustable bolt head should press the plunger to open the switch with the stand down . . .

(Looking for an image to depict the whole Rube Goldberg affair, in situ . . .)

[Yam350]

I’ve just given it a clean and fitted it correctly and it works….hurray! Thanks again Docc

[docc]

6 minutes ago, Yam350 said:

I’ve just given it a clean and fitted it correctly and it works….hurray! Thanks again Docc

Outstanding!

While we're in that neighborhood, just a reminder to all of one the V11's eight Achilles' Heels : Be certain this fastener stays tight and, just as importantly, check that the the large upper fastener is properly torqued to the surprisingly high 70 Nm . . .

[audiomick]

7 hours ago, Yam350 said:

...the clutch switch...the side stand switch...

...my question is, are they connected in any way or will they work independently?...

In the course of thinking about various aspects of the starter circuit, I "extracted" the circuit by hand from the circuit diagramme. It looks like this:

 

@docc has already pointed out that the side-stand switch is normally closed, so we can deduce from the sketch that (when the wiring is in its original state...)

The ECU only gets power when the side-stand is up, or the bike is in neutral (or both, of course)

and, over and above that (or "after" that in the circuit)

the starter button only works when the clutch is pulled and the clutch switch is closed.

 

Hope that helps.

[Yam350]

Many thanks. I’d hoped they were independent as I can live without the clutch switch but wanted the stand cut out operational. My switch was still there and connected but had been zip tied to the bracket so wasn’t in contact with the stand. I thought it would be too good to be true but tried fitting it correctly and it’s working! 

[po18guy]

I have an occasional no-start issue with the clutch microswitch. It bump starts fine (ugh!). Based on the diagram, am beginning to suspect relay #1. But, is it still relay #1 on 2004 models?

[stewgnu]

5 hours ago, po18guy said:

I have an occasional no-start issue with the clutch microswitch. It bump starts fine (ugh!). Based on the diagram, am beginning to suspect relay #1. But, is it still relay #1 on 2004 models?

yes it looks like it feeds into 85 on the start relay

[docc]

11 hours ago, po18guy said:

I have an occasional no-start issue with the clutch microswitch. It bump starts fine (ugh!). Based on the diagram, am beginning to suspect relay #1. But, is it still relay #1 on 2004 models?

The most common failure of the Clutch Switch is in the "bullet connectors on the forward left side of the frame. Sometimes a "wiggle test" will reveal an intermittent connection failure there: With the bike in neutral, ignition and run switch on, hold the clutch lever in and hold the starter button down while slowly rotating the bars lock-to-lock.  If the starter catches, clean-crimp-treat-seal the bullet connectors . . .

Simplest way to test the relay is to insert a known good, 5-pin, high current relay in that position. This Picker Components relay has the highest 5th pin (NC) rating I've ever seen (25amps):

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/picker-components/PC782-1C-12S-R-X/12352866

[audiomick]

I "extracted" the starter circuit from the wiring diagramme, and have already posted it here a couple of times.

 

 

Mine is a 2002 model. As far as I have been able to tell, the circuitry stayed pretty much the same from mine onwards.

[po18guy]

15 hours ago, docc said:

The most common failure of the Clutch Switch is in the "bullet connectors on the forward left side of the frame. Sometimes a "wiggle test" will reveal an intermittent connection failure there: With the bike in neutral, ignition and run switch on, hold the clutch lever in and hold the starter button down while slowly rotating the bars lock-to-lock.  If the starter catches, clean-crimp-treat-seal the bullet connectors . . .

Simplest way to test the relay is to insert a known good, 5-pin, high current relay in that position. This Picker Components relay has the highest 5th pin (NC) rating I've ever seen (25amps):

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/picker-components/PC782-1C-12S-R-X/12352866

Aha! I recently solved a low battery voltage issue by cleaning and Deox-It-ing the multi-pin connector between the rectifier and the main wiring loom. It is rather exposed to weather (being about one foot below the clutch switch bullet connectors on the left side). It gets wet when washing the bike or riding in the rain, and the water sits and corrodes the contacts. So, off to the bullet connectors.

NOTE: I had thought that clutch lever gunk had plugged the tiny, easily lost plastic cylinder which operates the clutch safety microswitch. After cleaning and testing, all was fine, but the problem persisted. So, bullet connectors and then the relay if needed. Got those in stock, fortunately.