Acceleration Enrichment Map-2004 Rosso Corsa

[Speedfrog]

3 minutes ago, p6x said:

Is there any way to check your ECU type? the adhesive label that I see on photos is missing on mine. It has been ripped off.

I believe the sticker/label is the only form of identification... 

[p6x]

13 minutes ago, Speedfrog said:

I believe the sticker/label is the only form of identification... 

Dang! I really don't understand why would someone remove that sticker, unless it was stolen and someone wanted to hide the serial number?

[Speedfrog]

1 hour ago, p6x said:

Dang! I really don't understand why would someone remove that sticker, unless it was stolen and someone wanted to hide the serial number?

Or it was replaced with the same type but from a different model and re-mapped for your bike...

I've seen ECU's with factory superimposed sticker on top of the original one, i.e. V11 California on top of V11 Sport, all 15M ECU's.

You can check what ECU type your bike is running in the owner manual, under specifications - most likely Magneti Marelli IAW 15M.

[audiomick]

2 hours ago, p6x said:

Is there any way to check your ECU type? the adhesive label that I see on photos is missing on mine. It has been ripped off.

 

2 hours ago, Speedfrog said:

I believe the sticker/label is the only form of identification... 

 

1 hour ago, Speedfrog said:

Or it was replaced with the same type but from a different model and re-mapped for your bike...

I've seen ECU's with factory superimposed sticker on top of the original one, i.e. V11 California on top of V11 Sport, all 15M ECU's.

I don't know for sure  if it was "all 15M ECUs", but I've got one of them in my V11 Le Mans, built in 2002.

As has been mentioned above, I believe the workshop manual lists the ECU type.

What I have gathered is:

It will be either a 15M or a 15RC. The breakpoint was 2002 or 2003, as far as I have been able to establish.

Mine has a paper sticker on it that says "Le Mans 2002". I was told by a very reliable source that ECUs were used that had been initally installed in a California model and were recalled on warranty because they were not correctly programmed. These were re-programmed in the factory and installed in V11 models. Under the paper sticker, when it is carefully and completely removed, the original "California" designation should be visible. As an aside, my 2005 Breva 750 has a 15RC ECU, and the designation on it is, I believe, printed directly onto the housing and not on a sticker. If not that, it is a plastic sticker. So the remains of a paper sticker indicate a 15M.

As far as I know, all the models with 15RC ECUs have a Lamda sensor. If there is no Lamda sensor in the exhaust, it must be a 15M.

Guzzidiag shows the ECU designation on the screen in large script on the bottom left of the screen. Connect it up, and there will be no doubt.

 

[audiomick]

It occurs to me that not everyone knows what a Lamda sensor looks like, so...

It's a thing screwed in to the exhaust system with two wires coming off it. The one on my Breva 750 is in the crossover pipe between the headers under the motor. That is where I would expect to find it on the V11 models that have one. It looks like this:

 

[docc]

Is that where the V11 LeMans sensors are (on the crossover)?

Or on the header pipes?

[audiomick]

I believe there is only one, so it must be on the crossover. Otherwise it would be measuring the exhaust gas from only one cylinder.

 

If there are two, which I don't believe is the case on a V11, they must be before the crossover to get a dedicated measurement for each cylinder.

 

Given that the ECU on the Breva 750 is to a reasonable degree of certainty the same system as on V11s of the same period, I don't believe that the V11s would have two Lamda sensors. I don't think the 15RC ECU can even deal with input from two sensors, but I'm not sure of that.

[docc]

4 minutes ago, audiomick said:

I believe there is only one, so it must be on the crossover. Otherwise it would be measuring the exhaust gas from only one cylinder.

 

If there are two, which I don't believe is the case on a V11, they must be before the crossover to get a dedicated measurement for each cylinder.

 

Given that the ECU on the Breva 750 is to a reasonable degree of certainty the same system as on V11s of the same period, I don't believe that the V11s would have two Lamda sensors. I don't think the 15RC ECU can even deal with input from two sensors, but I'm not sure of that.

Good points. Perhaps members with Lambda V11 can share. I have never seen the location of the O2 sensor on a V11 Sport/LeMans and cannot find it on my Parts Catalogs . . .

[audiomick]

I went looking in some workshop manuals. The only one I could find is in French, Italian and Spanish, but we have a couple of members here that could translate....

https://guzzitek.org/atelier/gb/1100/V11_99_03_Atelier(I_F_E).pdf

Page 554 shows a drawing of one (only) Lamda sensor mounted on the crossover.

The circuit diagram on page 610 also shows only one Lamda sensor, component number 59 according to the list on page 611

[docc]

There you have it. If your V11 has it . . .

[Speedfrog]

3 hours ago, audiomick said:

I don't know for sure  if it was "all 15M ECUs

What I meant to say is any (and all) 15M can be swapped between different bike models with the proper map installed.

The same goes for the 15RC's, but not between 15M and 15RC in the original bike configurations.

 

3 hours ago, audiomick said:

It will be either a 15M or a 15RC. The breakpoint was 2002 or 2003, as far as I have been able to establish.

Not on US models. The 15RC never made to this side of the pond, at least not on the V11 Sport.

 

I have an 15M ECU in my stash that was originally intended for a V11 Sport but had a paper label for a V11 California on top of the original plastic one... I was able to carefully removed the paper label and preserve the original. It'll get a proper map written for the V11 Sport eventually...

Very much like this one where you can just make out the "V11 Sport" writing of the original label under the paper one.

[audiomick]

21 hours ago, Speedfrog said:

What I meant to say is any (and all) 15M can be swapped between different bike models with the proper map installed.

The same goes for the 15RC's, but not between 15M and 15RC in the original bike configurations.

Yes, that matches what I have read regarding various different models. It seems it doesn't matter in which bike the ECU was origionally installed, as long as it is the same type as the one in the bike in question, it can be re-programmed and made to work. Using a different type of ECU than the original is far more complicated, as a map has to be created "from scratch".

I believe Lucky Phil had to do with that issue with his V10 Motor in his V11 Sport, i.e the retaining the ECU from the V11 and making it work with the V10 motor that origionally had a different ECU.

[80CX100]

On 10/24/2023 at 5:58 PM, p6x said:

Is there any way to check your ECU type? the adhesive label that I see on photos is missing on mine. It has been ripped off.

Subject to verification,by someone who knows about this digital crap,lol 

I "think" guzzidiag can id the ecu once it's connected.

I know it can id the map that's installed on the ecu;ergo would it not also be able to id the ecu it's plugged into?

fwiw idk

[audiomick]

9 minutes ago, 80CX100 said:

I "think" guzzidiag can id the ecu once it's connected.

Yes, it can. In fact, it needs to know which ECU it is connecting to, as far as I understand it.

That is not a big deal, though. The connection process involves telling the program which motorcycle it is connecting to (Datei -> Einstellungen in the german version).

When it is connected, the ECU type is clearly shown in a box on the lower left of the screen.

[Lucky Phil]

On 10/17/2023 at 3:08 PM, Rob NZ said:

Hello All

I have been following the forum for some time now but this is my first time posting.  I enjoy the forum and really appreciate the information and support.  

As you can see form my profile I have a 2004 Rosso Corsa.  It has done just over 60,000KMs and it is a nice bike to ride.

I have tuned it many times using the "decent tune up" protocol. It runs well except that every now and then it will cough when blipping and changing down and cut out.

It is stock except that some time ago I did the "Phil teardrop mods" to open up the airbox.  It still has a paper filter.  The cough and cut out issue was there before the mods and has not changed since the mods were done.

My bike has a Lamba senor.  More recently I downloaded Guzzi Diag switched off the sensor and started tuning the maps.  It's a "rabbit hole" for sure but lots of fun.  I have cured the cough by enriching the fuel map at low revs/throttle openings.  The engine also runs smoothly now when in traffic at 2k to 3K revs with no lean stumble.

The only issue is the underlying stock acceleration enrichment map which of course cuts in when you switch the Lamba sensor off.  Except for wide throttle openings at low revs the boxes in the matrix are all at 107 which I think can not be right I have modified mine but I am not sure how far I might be out because I am just tuning by "seat of pants".  

Can anybody help me with a bin of an acceleration enrichment map from a none Lamba bike which might help as a cross check/starting point?  

Thank you

Rob

 

         

 

I suggest you leave it alone. So all the V11 maps I've looked at, Meinolfs custom map, the std v11 from 2000, the Rosso Mandello, the factory map for the Titanium exhaust all use the exact same acceleration map numbers. I've never touched my accel map which is the same as the std V11 2000 map and all the others running a Daytona engine. The std 16M Daytona and Centauro maps dont even have an accel map. 

 

Phil