Weigh-in

[Lucky Phil]

So I weighed the V10 Sport today. The bike has a wheel/tyre/axle combo that's 9KG lighter than stock and a single plate aluminium clutch and flywheel and about 80% Titanium fasteners for reference. It also has the chin spoiler, bikini fairing and a Wilbers full spec shock with remote hydraulic preload adjuster.

Total weight......231Kg with all fluids and no fuel.

Front 114Kg- Rear 122Kg minus 5KG for fuel. 

The centre of the wheelbase is in line with the gearbox to engine interface. 

I've never liked those scales.

 

Phil

[MartyNZ]

Good job. Better suspension, lower unsprung weight. How does it handle?

I've been wondering if there is a tire that has lower weight. A cheap way to reduce unsprung weight?  I've not been able to find any info on this.  I weighed a new Bridgestone Battlax 120/70ZR17 T32 at 4.39kg, and a worn BT023 at slightly heavier. Have you weighed any tires?

[Lucky Phil]

18 minutes ago, MartyNZ said:

Good job. Better suspension, lower unsprung weight. How does it handle?

I've been wondering if there is a tire that has lower weight. A cheap way to reduce unsprung weight?  I've not been able to find any info on this.  I weighed a new Bridgestone Battlax 120/70ZR17 T32 at 4.39kg, and a worn BT023 at slightly heavier. Have you weighed any tires?

No just the tyre and wheel combinations but the tyres were 170 and 180 so not much use there. The rear shock is better but probably heavier although it has an alloy body but preload adjuster assembly will weigh a bit. I'd be interested to know what a std V11 Sport weighs in at. It would be above what Guzzi advertised at the time I'm sure now.

It's also got the later 43mm forks and much lighter 25mm hollow front axle. How's it handle? Better than before by a decent margin.

 

Phil

[docc]

Amending for the pannier/load out and a half tank of fuel, I get 223 kg. Add back abut 5 kilos for the weight of the stock LaFranconi canisters = 227. US V11 with the evaporative fuel vapor system are going to come in very close to 230 kg/ 506 pounds (if my fast math is right . . .).

[edit: revised, below: a factory RedFrame V11 Sport comes in at 530 pounds/ 241 kg. ]

[Lucky Phil]

8 hours ago, docc said:

Amending for the pannier/load out and a half tank of fuel, I get 223 kg. Add back abut 5 kilos for the weight of the stock LaFranconi canisters = 227. US V11 with the evaporative fuel vapor system are going to come in very close to 230 kg/ 506 pounds (if my fast math is right . . .).

Well my bike also has the Stucchi crossover and the Agostini mufflers for probably a weight saving of 6Kg. As an estimate I'd say the Daytona engine weighs maybe 6-8Kg more than the V11 engine. Lighter rods, crank but heavier heads inc cams etc, and valve drive gear. So I've dumped around 16Kg added about 6-8 and somehow ended up with a bike heavier than a std V11 Sport.

 

Phil 

[docc]

16 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

Well my bike also has the Stucchi crossover and the Agostini mufflers for probably a weight saving of 6Kg. As an estimate I'd say the Daytona engine weighs maybe 6-8Kg more than the V11 engine. Lighter rods, crank but heavier heads inc cams etc, and valve drive gear. So I've dumped around 16Kg added about 6-8 and somehow ended up with a bike heavier than a std V11 Sport.

 

Phil 

hmm. Let me take out my original notes and check my math. Not really used to thinking in kg . . .

[Lucky Phil]

9 minutes ago, docc said:

hmm. Let me take out my original notes and check my math. Not really used to thinking in kg . . .

I think your maths is ok docc. Maybe southern hemisphere weight is different to northern.

 

Phil

[audiomick]

44 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

... somehow ended up with a bike heavier than a std V11 Sport.l 

You obviously need more titanium.

 

And maybe a bit more carbon fibre. Seat base, perhaps?

Titanium reaction rod?

 

Seriously though, thinking about it, nothing springs out as an obvious place to save weight. In contrast, for instance, the V35 Imola (which would really benefit from saving a kilo or two on account of the moderate power output and already fairly low weight) has a number of really obvious points: the seat is far too heavy, the bracket for the seat is steel (could be drilled out a bit, could be aluminium or carbon or titanium), the steel tank could be replicated in aluminium, the foot-pegs could be replaced by aluminium items, the list is long.

On top of what you have already done, @Lucky Phil, I can't think of many more obvious possibilities to save some weight on a V11. A Lithium-ion battery perhaps, if there isn't already one in there. Otherwise...

[docc]

I went back to my original notes from 2016 and found more detail. Pretty impressive your 48/52% weight distribution, @Lucky Phil. We were most interested in weight distribution with the rider on board, in gear, with typical luggage/load and "some" fuel. My weight distribution with about 1/4 tank of fuel in that configuration is 43/57.

I did also weigh the Sport by itself and got 46/54 at 524# / 238 kg.

So, redoing the math from the notes, taking out the fuel, the Stucchi+GPS and adding back the original LaFranconi canisters and fuel evap system, a factory RedFrame V11 Sport comes in at 530 pounds/ 241 kg.

Seems the Lucky_Phil V10 Sport is ten kilos (22 pounds) lighter, even with the V10 motor! 

I mean, sure, that's just 4%, but just try losing 22 pounds your-own-self! 

[The published weight "dry" of the 2000 V1 Sport is 219 kilos. Even taking out the gearoil, reardrive oil, motor oil, battery, and the fuel evap system I can't get any place close to that. Never ask an Italian girl what she weighs. She'll tell you 45 kilos. And they'll never find your body . . . ]

 

 

[Lucky Phil]

6 hours ago, docc said:

I went back to my original notes from 2016 and found more detail. Pretty impressive your 48/52% weight distribution, @Lucky Phil. We were most interested in weight distribution with the rider on board, in gear, with typical luggage/load and "some" fuel. My weight distribution with about 1/4 tank of fuel in that configuration is 43/57.

I did also weigh the Sport by itself and got 46/54 at 524# / 238 kg.

So, redoing the math from the notes, taking out the fuel, the Stucchi+GPS and adding back the original LaFranconi canisters and fuel evap system, a factory RedFrame V11 Sport comes in at 530 pounds/ 241 kg.

Seems the Lucky_Phil V10 Sport is ten kilos (22 pounds) lighter, even with the V10 motor! 

I mean, sure, that's just 4%, but just try losing 22 pounds your-own-self! 

[The published weight "dry" of the 2000 V1 Sport is 219 kilos. Even taking out the gearoil, reardrive oil, motor oil, battery, and the fuel evap system I can't get any place close to that. Never ask an Italian girl what she weighs. She'll tell you 45 kilos. And they'll never find your body . . . ]

 

 

I feel somewhat better now knowing that. I weighed a V11 bare head fitted with valves and springs and the inlet manifold and rubber and a bare Daytona head without valves rockers etc but with the rocker support and a cam in it. I doubt a Daytona head would weigh more than 2 Kg over the V11 head complete. So that's 4 KG plus cam drive pulleys and belts etc. So I think the engine would be in that +5 to 6kg more range. The cams alone in the Daytona engine weigh 865 Grams each and it still has a jackshaft in place of the original Camshaft.  

As Mick said a Lithium battery would drop probably 5 KG. Is there any experience with the LiPo batteries in the V11. Does the charging system treat them OK? I'm sure some here have tried them in the past.

 

Phil

[MartyNZ]

1 hour ago, Lucky Phil said:

Is there any experience with the LiPo batteries in the V11. Does the charging system treat them OK? I'm sure some here have tried them in the past.

I'm happy with mine. See https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/topic/30633-share-your-lithium-battery-experience-cold-environment-durability-else/#comment-289414

 

[GuzziMoto]

13 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

I feel somewhat better now knowing that. I weighed a V11 bare head fitted with valves and springs and the inlet manifold and rubber and a bare Daytona head without valves rockers etc but with the rocker support and a cam in it. I doubt a Daytona head would weigh more than 2 Kg over the V11 head complete. So that's 4 KG plus cam drive pulleys and belts etc. So I think the engine would be in that +5 to 6kg more range. The cams alone in the Daytona engine weigh 865 Grams each and it still has a jackshaft in place of the original Camshaft.  

As Mick said a Lithium battery would drop probably 5 KG. Is there any experience with the LiPo batteries in the V11. Does the charging system treat them OK? I'm sure some here have tried them in the past.

 

Phil

I have a Ducati Monster 1100 with a Lithium battery, similar charging system, no issues.

Probably the next battery in my Daytona will be Lithium, mainly due to availability.

[audiomick]

On 11/7/2023 at 7:03 AM, Lucky Phil said:

... Does the charging system treat them OK?....

Suck it an see, mate. They're sold as drop-in replacements.

 

Generally speaking:

I've read that they get sulky below about 5°C. Somehow I can't imagine that you will be setting off from where you live all that often when it is below that temperature. Even so, the trick is, apparently, to turn on the key and let it stand for a couple of minutes (with the lights on). The load warms the battery, and it becomes more willing.

I've read of cases where the Li-ion Battery got too hot and started letting out the magic gray smoke.

My guess is, mostly they installed a battery that was at the bottom end of the "enough kick" scale (4AH was mentioned by one of them); presumably "planning by budget". I reckon the battery was getting run half-flat by the starting procedure, and getting too hot through the re-charge process. A bigger battery would master the start more easily,  not have so much urgent need to re-charge, and presumably be much less in danger of overheating in the process. But that is just a theory.

[GuzziMoto]

My first Lithium battery was a Shorai. It was mostly a failure in my Griso. It worked for a couple years, but would not start the bike on cold mornings. And it did not last as long as I expected.

Next I tried a Ballistic, again in the Griso. Another failure. Did not last long, did worse then the Shorai.

Currently I am running an Anti Gravity Lithium battery with their Re-Start feature. So far it has worked well enough. The Monster does not get ridden much, but so far the Anti Gravity battery has started it each time, not even needing the Re-Start feature.

No doubt there are other good options. And technology for Lithium batteries has improved since my first Shorai battery in the Griso. And part of the issue with it in my Griso was the way the early Griso's would abort the start process if it sensed a low battery voltage. Newer Griso's allowed you to hold down the starter button and force it to turn the engine over. Mine is a early one and it lacks that. So a cold Lithium battery might not start it (just a click).

[LaGrasta]

I've had incredible performance from lithium batteries. My V7 had a Shorai for nearly 10 years! I own a total of 7 bikes, and aside from the two scooters, the other 5 all have lithium. My new favorite brand is NoCo, (currently in my KLX250) really impressive product, and price!