Weigh-in

[80CX100]

I'm not surprised GuzziMoto has tried a variety of lithium batteries in his Griso; I put my Griso back on the road this fall & trying to get the full size 20ah Yuasa in,with the funky tray & wiring,was a biatch.

The Griso's battery compartment makes the cramped V11's look like the Holiday Inn 

I've never gone lithium,other than the size/cramped space issue,the weight isn't that big an issue for me,but I can certainly see the merits in Phil's quest.

Not sure what Phil's climate would be like on the lithiums; I know it's only a small sample, but is it indicative of real life battery service in different areas of the world?

LaGrasta in sunny & hot California,has had great luck & performance from his lithiums & GuzziMoto,someplace in Maryland which I'm surmising is a much colder,harsher climate,has had bad luck & poor service overall from his lithiums.

fwiw idk

[Lucky Phil]

Ok so I will try a Lithium battery. I've used one in my Suzuki track bike but that's a Japanese charging system not a Luigi system. Shorai batteries are a bit of an issue to get here though.

 

Phil 

[GuzziMoto]

I think there are a number of decent companies out there making Lithium batteries. I would go with one that is easy to get and that the supplier for is reputable and likely to stand behind their product. For me that is currently Anti Gravity. But where you are would likely be a different option that is best. The basic technology of a Lithium battery is pretty well established. The typical motorcycle Lithium battery is not going to be state of the art cutting edge Lithium tech. You just want a well made Lithium battery that someone will stand behind should it have issues.

My issue with the one in the Griso was that we often have cold nights leading up to nice riding weather during the day. When the bike is outside at night, for example parked in a hotel parking lot on a motorcycle trip, it gets cold enough that it would not start in the morning. Push starting a fully packed up Griso because the Lithium battery would not start it sucks. I learned to try to park on high ground to make starting easier should the battery fail to.

[MartyNZ]

15 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

Shorai batteries are a bit of an issue to get here though.

https://shoraipower.litema.com.au/contact/

SHORAI AUSTRALIA CONTACTS PHONE: 07 5504 5595, MOBILE: 0412 170 020

I fitted a LFX21L6-BS12 way back in 2016, still going strong. You should consider buying the dedicated charger for storage and "balance charging".

 

 

[Lucky Phil]

2 hours ago, MartyNZ said:

https://shoraipower.litema.com.au/contact/

SHORAI AUSTRALIA CONTACTS PHONE: 07 5504 5595, MOBILE: 0412 170 020

I fitted a LFX21L6-BS12 way back in 2016, still going strong. You should consider buying the dedicated charger for storage and "balance charging".

 

 

Yea I saw that but didn't realise you could buy online.

Phil

[audiomick]

9 hours ago, GuzziMoto said:

... cold enough that it would not start in the morning.

I wrote it further up: the trick is, apparently, turn the ignition and the lights on, and let it stand for a couple of minutes. Completely contra-intuitive with a "flat" battery, but the load warms the battery, and it then works better and can deliver the required grunt to start. At least according to everything I have read on the subject.

 

PS: also according to "everything I have read on the subject": yes, a dedicated charger is apparently a good thing. What is to be avoided at all costs is a charger the does a "de-sulphate" routine. That seems to be fatally detrimental to a lithium battery.

[docc]

36 minutes ago, audiomick said:

I wrote it further up: the trick is, apparently, turn the ignition and the lights on, and let it stand for a couple of minutes. Completely contra-intuitive with a "flat" battery, but the load warms the battery, and it then works better and can deliver the required grunt to start. At least according to everything I have read on the subject.

 

PS: also according to "everything I have read on the subject": yes, a dedicated charger is apparently a good thing. What is to be avoided at all costs is a charger the does a "de-sulphate" routine. That seems to be fatally detrimental to a lithium battery.

These observations also all apply to the AGM battery original to the V11 . . .

[GuzziMoto]

11 hours ago, audiomick said:

I wrote it further up: the trick is, apparently, turn the ignition and the lights on, and let it stand for a couple of minutes. Completely contra-intuitive with a "flat" battery, but the load warms the battery, and it then works better and can deliver the required grunt to start. At least according to everything I have read on the subject.

 

PS: also according to "everything I have read on the subject": yes, a dedicated charger is apparently a good thing. What is to be avoided at all costs is a charger the does a "de-sulphate" routine. That seems to be fatally detrimental to a lithium battery.

And that might help if you can do that. But that wasn't an option on my Griso. As I recall, the headlight doesn't come on until the engine starts. Trust me, I tried a lot of things.

[Lucky Phil]

On 11/11/2023 at 12:50 AM, GuzziMoto said:

And that might help if you can do that. But that wasn't an option on my Griso. As I recall, the headlight doesn't come on until the engine starts. Trust me, I tried a lot of things.

I have an automotive stop and tail light bulb with pigtails soldered to it for testing stuff and removing the flash charge from batteries before testing with a meter etc. If I had this cold weather issue with a Lithium battery I'd just fit my home made tool with either an accessory socket that plugs into the std one on the bike if fitted or onto the remote charging fly leads and let the combined stop and tail light illumination of the bulb warm the battery. My simple tool cois up to the size of the palm of your hand and fits in the front pocket of a pair of jeans. Failing that any simple pair of short leads and a resistor of some kind would work. Plug in a heated vest for a while might do it as well.

 

Phil 

[GuzziMoto]

On 11/11/2023 at 5:23 PM, Lucky Phil said:

I have an automotive stop and tail light bulb with pigtails soldered to it for testing stuff and removing the flash charge from batteries before testing with a meter etc. If I had this cold weather issue with a Lithium battery I'd just fit my home made tool with either an accessory socket that plugs into the std one on the bike if fitted or onto the remote charging fly leads and let the combined stop and tail light illumination of the bulb warm the battery. My simple tool cois up to the size of the palm of your hand and fits in the front pocket of a pair of jeans. Failing that any simple pair of short leads and a resistor of some kind would work. Plug in a heated vest for a while might do it as well.

 

Phil 

Simpler solution was to install a battery that didn't need help after the Shorai battery failed fairly early by my standards (lasted a couple years). But yeah, adding something that would put a load on the battery would probably have helped. Not sure a tail light would be enough load, a head light would be better, even just a switch that went straight from the battery to the stock head light would probably have done the trick, no extra parts to carry. But I should not need to do that. That is solving a problem that should not exist. And now it doesn't.

[Lucky Phil]

5 hours ago, GuzziMoto said:

Simpler solution was to install a battery that didn't need help after the Shorai battery failed fairly early by my standards (lasted a couple years). But yeah, adding something that would put a load on the battery would probably have helped. Not sure a tail light would be enough load, a head light would be better, even just a switch that went straight from the battery to the stock head light would probably have done the trick, no extra parts to carry. But I should not need to do that. That is solving a problem that should not exist. And now it doesn't.

Thats why I have the tail and stop light elements both wired to come on together for higher load. Pick your poison. Massively lighter weight or an inconvenience in some conditions. I'm never going to be on a bike in cold conditions anyway. Cold to me is sub 15 deg C, lol.

 

Phil   

[MartyNZ]

4 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

 I'm never going to be on a bike in cold conditions anyway. Cold to me is sub 15 deg C, lol.

There's a lot of discussion about cold performance of lithium batteries, but I have never noticed an issue.

Push button - engine starts.

But then I'm a fine weather rider too.