Finally found the perfect car enabling me to stock more Moto Guzzi! the Renault Twizy; dang, it is not sold in the USA...

[p6x]

In 2019, I was prospecting to replace my Porsche 911 with a micro car that would allow more space for other(s) motorcycles. The only obvious choices were either a Smart fortwo, or a Fiat 500.

Both these cars are no longer commercialized in the USA. However, they only were stop gap choices. None of the cars sold in the USA are really small any longer.

I was in Paris (France) last week, and I came across the perfect candidate. This would allow me to park my motorcycles longitudinally in my garage, allowing for another two motorcycles alongside my Le Mans.

The Twizy would fit perfectly as my only four wheeled activities are relegated to few and far between. The speed is limited to 45 km/h, which is fine since I live in a 30 mph environment.

Can't have it though.... not imported in the USA...

 

[GuzziMoto]

That is cute. It would not work for us, but if it works for you it seems interesting. We had a second gen Smart, the FourTwo (a Brabus version). It was great. Still have it but sadly it developed issues and I have not had time to fix it. My long term hope for it is to upgrade the engine and trans to something with more go. It takes up so little room it isn't a problem having it around until I have the time and money to fix it up.

I think the third gen Smart, the USA only got the second gen and third gen, was the best one. But they didn't last, the company left here shortly after the third gen came out. Shame. One upgrade (at least to us) of the third gen was while it was about the same length it was wider. That gave you more room when two people were in it. But given your goal of making more room for bikes that might not be what you want. The third gen was also faster, with options for the transmission. The second gen transmission was probably one of the weak links, both in terms of performance (it took forever to shift) and reliability (the trans was the most common failure point for us, usually the actuator for the auto-clutch).

Probably not the sort of thing you are looking for, but you might be interested in one of these.

https://vanderhallusa.com/models-new-classic-2022/

 

[p6x]

7 hours ago, GuzziMoto said:

That is cute. It would not work for us, but if it works for you it seems interesting. We had a second gen Smart, the FourTwo (a Brabus version). It was great. Still have it but sadly it developed issues and I have not had time to fix it. My long term hope for it is to upgrade the engine and trans to something with more go. It takes up so little room it isn't a problem having it around until I have the time and money to fix it up.

I think the third gen Smart, the USA only got the second gen and third gen, was the best one. But they didn't last, the company left here shortly after the third gen came out. Shame. One upgrade (at least to us) of the third gen was while it was about the same length it was wider. That gave you more room when two people were in it. But given your goal of making more room for bikes that might not be what you want. The third gen was also faster, with options for the transmission. The second gen transmission was probably one of the weak links, both in terms of performance (it took forever to shift) and reliability (the trans was the most common failure point for us, usually the actuator for the auto-clutch).

Probably not the sort of thing you are looking for, but you might be interested in one of these.

https://vanderhallusa.com/models-new-classic-2022/

 

While I was in Paris, I saw the newer Smart ForTwo and Fiat 500. They really look good and have improved a lot.

What model year is your ForTwo?

Indeed, the augmented girth is not an improvement but with a Smart, I could park two motorcycles longitudinally behind it. At present, I can only put one.

the "vanderhall" are very nice! are they trying to replicate the "Vanwall"? but at 40 kUSD, not really an option.

I looked at the Japanese "kei" cars, or the vintage mini or 500 which are extremely small, such as this one: https://classics.autotrader.com/classic-cars/1972/fiat/500/101952239

But again 30kUSD for 1972 vehicle.

 

[80CX100]

The micro cars don't suit my needs,but I took a hard look at some of the Fiat 500s,when a fellow guzzisti raved about his.

Some of the well farkled Fiat 500s I looked at were smoking deals for what you seemed to get.

I don't know how long that small engine would last with a turbo;but sounded exciting for a grocery getter 

 

 

[p6x]

12 hours ago, 80CX100 said:

The micro cars don't suit my needs,but I took a hard look at some of the Fiat 500s,when a fellow guzzisti raved about his.

Some of the well farkled Fiat 500s I looked at were smoking deals for what you seemed to get.

I don't know how long that small engine would last with a turbo;but sounded exciting for a grocery getter 

 

 

When  I was working in Italy, owning one of those was the ultimate craze for those of us who did not get a company car.

The Fiat 500 is slightly longer than a Smart ForTwo at 117" versus 106". The major problem is that it is basically a tinfoil car. If you get hit by anything, that thing will crumble on you like paper.

[p6x]

23 hours ago, 80CX100 said:

Some of the well farkled Fiat 500s I looked at were smoking deals for what you seemed to get.

By the way, did you know that initially, FIAT considered Moto Guzzi to supply the engine for the Cinquecento... however, Moto Guzzi did not have the production capacity to supply the volume FIAT required. So Moto Guzzi missed a chance to really make big bucks....

[80CX100]

@p6x I'm surprised it's 117" in length,it looks tiny.

It sounds like they have a reasonable reputation around the world;here in Canada,they're somewhat rare & a bit of an oddity,so used they tend to sell at lower prices. 

I'm not surprised that the guzzi engine was considered for the Fiat 500's;it's been used effectively already in a few car/trike kits.

If it ever came with a version of a guzzi engine, I don't think I could resist 

[p6x]

10 hours ago, 80CX100 said:

It sounds like they have a reasonable reputation around the world;here in Canada,they're somewhat rare & a bit of an oddity,so used they tend to sell at lower prices. 

Most of vintage vehicles are sold at auctions, mainly for collectors. If shipping prices had not grown exponentially to what it is now, I would go to Italy, scour the local paper's add and find a daily runner there.

Loot at this one: 2700 EUR; it is in Sicily (CT) https://www.subito.it/auto/fiat-cinquecento-d-epoca-catania-521401923.htm

Sure, the upholstery needs a good refresh, but compared to a whopping 31,000 USD....

My dream car below....

 

[activpop]

@p6xA friend of mine has one here in town. It is his pride and joy.

[audiomick]

If I was looking for a (very) small car, I would be looking for a good one of these:

 

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_iQ

I had a look at the time. Seems like Toyota looked at the Smart, and made a better one.

 

PS: I've seen that Renault here a couple of times. Not for me. For all that it offers, I think I would prefer to stick with a motorcycle.

[p6x]

1 hour ago, activpop said:

@p6xA friend of mine has one here in town. It is his pride and joy.

The closest I got was an E Type jaguar, with the V12; I had a friend who owned one, and it was always breaking down.

[p6x]

49 minutes ago, audiomick said:

If I was looking for a (very) small car, I would be looking for a good one of these:

 

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_iQ

I had a look at the time. Seems like Toyota looked at the Smart, and made a better one.

 

PS: I've seen that Renault here a couple of times. Not for me. For all that it offers, I think I would prefer to stick with a motorcycle.

It used to be commercialized here as the SCION IQ, and got bad reviews if excepted for its size and mpg.

The SMART Fortwo remains the better of the limited choices. Mind you, as for every preowned / used vehicles here, the ask prices are simply insane. A 2012 Smart Fortwo with 150,000 miles: 7500 USD from an individual seller. The recommended price from a dealership is 2000 dollars less. Just to give you an idea of the madness. My 911, if I was to put it on the market, would yield an identical price to that when I purchased it in 2014.... crazy!

 

[GuzziMoto]

On 11/10/2023 at 7:13 PM, p6x said:

While I was in Paris, I saw the newer Smart ForTwo and Fiat 500. They really look good and have improved a lot.

What model year is your ForTwo?

Indeed, the augmented girth is not an improvement but with a Smart, I could park two motorcycles longitudinally behind it. At present, I can only put one.

the "vanderhall" are very nice! are they trying to replicate the "Vanwall"? but at 40 kUSD, not really an option.

I looked at the Japanese "kei" cars, or the vintage mini or 500 which are extremely small, such as this one: https://classics.autotrader.com/classic-cars/1972/fiat/500/101952239

But again 30kUSD for 1972 vehicle.

 

Ours is a 2009 FourTwo Brabus.

I am not sure the Toyota is a better Smart FourTwo. It is a Toyota, and no doubt some will like that. But the Toyota is a front wheel drive shitbox, made by Toyota. The Smart is a rear engine rear wheel drive city car that is fun to drive. Our 2009 came with heated leather seats. In 2009. You could not buy a shitbox like that Toyota back then with heated leather seats. And we paid just over 20 grand for it. That was near the top of the line. I don't think that Toyota is even in the same class. If you can find a used one at a reasonable price a third gen one would be something I would consider. But used car prices are crazy, and you can't get a new one in this country anymore.

[p6x]

1 hour ago, GuzziMoto said:

Ours is a 2009 FourTwo Brabus.

I am not sure the Toyota is a better Smart FourTwo. It is a Toyota, and no doubt some will like that. But the Toyota is a front wheel drive shitbox, made by Toyota. The Smart is a rear engine rear wheel drive city car that is fun to drive. Our 2009 came with heated leather seats. In 2009. You could not buy a shitbox like that Toyota back then with heated leather seats. And we paid just over 20 grand for it. That was near the top of the line. I don't think that Toyota is even in the same class. If you can find a used one at a reasonable price a third gen one would be something I would consider. But used car prices are crazy, and you can't get a new one in this country anymore.

It was the point I was making in my last post about the used equipment prices in the USA. It is not only cars. We now have used gear being put for sale at prices above new. It is everything; cameras, musical instruments....

People are trying to make a few bucks more out of just about everything.

 

 

 

[audiomick]

2 hours ago, p6x said:

.... the SCION IQ, ... got bad reviews ...

Funny, the press here liked it (the Toyota).

 

As for it being a shitbox: an acquaintance had an iQ. He put lots of miles on it, including regular trips on the german Autobahn. He was perfectly happy with it.

I haven't driven either, but I've sat in both. The Toyota made a considerably better impression on me.

 

At the end of the day I'd take a Toyota above an "entry level" Daimler every time, particularly one that is in the end not much more than a cynical marketing exercise. I did enough Daimler annual stockholder's meetings to know that that is exactly what the Smart is.