p6x Posted January 11 Posted January 11 It had to happen, sooner or later! Piaggio wants to have an entry level bike for Moto Guzzi as every other brand is currently purporting; only it will not be one with the legendary V twin; rather, it would use the Aprilia RS 457 parallel twin, and final chain drive. This is not 100% confirmed, it is just a guess: https://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle-news/moto-guzzi-retro-roadster-spy-shots/ Whoever came up with the idea, I think it is a mistake. Moto Guzzi must remain special and different. I am not certain, slapping an Aprila power plant on a Guzzi chassis will do much to promote the brand. The Guzzi identity must be preserved. Why couldn't they take a V7 and make it a V5? 1
docc Posted January 12 Posted January 12 When Piaggio declared Moto Guzzi's focus to be "travel", I thought the brand protected from this sot of thing. But, alas . . .
GuzziMoto Posted January 15 Posted January 15 Actually, Moto Guzzi has a well established history with engines that aren't sideways V twins. It is fairly recently, in Moto Guzzi terms, that they became known for the sideways V twin. That said, I am fine with other engine layouts as long as it doesn't end up being simple badge engineering. If they just slap MG badges on an Aprilia, that will suck. But if they use an Aprilia engine in a new Guzzi I am fine with that. 1
p6x Posted January 15 Author Posted January 15 1 hour ago, GuzziMoto said: If they just slap MG badges on an Aprilia I doubt Piaggio would do that; it would be sacrilege... I think that since the 70's, Moto Guzzi has been known for their engine's typical architecture. I realize it's pretty standard to give multiple uses to a power plant, and it also saves the cost of developing a mid-size engine that would only be useable on a Guzzi? while a vertical dual cylinder may fit a Guzzi, the opposite may not go well on an Aprilia. Personally, an Aprila powered Moto Guzzi would not appeal to me. Modernize the V35 to V50 keep it air cooled and voilà! no? Triumph, BSA, Royal Enfield do it. Triumph just came out with a completely new 400cc power plant... https://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle-reviews/triumph-speed-400-exclusive-first-test-review/ 1
GuzziMoto Posted January 15 Posted January 15 5 minutes ago, p6x said: I doubt Piaggio would do that; it would be sacrilege... I think that since the 70's, Moto Guzzi has been known for their engine's typical architecture. I realize it's pretty standard to give multiple uses to a power plant, and it also saves the cost of developing a mid-size engine that would only be useable on a Guzzi? while a vertical dual cylinder may fit a Guzzi, the opposite may not go well on an Aprilia. Personally, an Aprila powered Moto Guzzi would not appeal to me. Modernize the V35 to V50 keep it air cooled and voilà! no? Triumph, BSA, Royal Enfield do it. Triumph just came out with a completely new 400cc power plant... https://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle-reviews/triumph-speed-400-exclusive-first-test-review/ Heck, Triumph is developing two new motocross platforms, a 250 single and a 450 single, plus that new 400 single. They are a much larger brand then MG is. Personally, as long as a new MG is really an MG and not a rebadged Aprilia I don't care if the engine layout is not a sideways V twin. As long as they keep thinking outside the box and doing things their own was I don't care if they share engine designs with Aprilia.
p6x Posted January 15 Author Posted January 15 3 hours ago, GuzziMoto said: They are a much larger brand then MG is. Piaggio has the means to do it, if they want to. But business is business. I had a discussion with Iron Supply Powersports last week; the owner told me he attempted to get Aprilia however Piaggio told him he could only get Aprilia if he took Moto Guzzi too. He told me he checked the sales data of Moto Guzzi in the USA, and declined Piaggio's offer. Even among us, Guzzi enthusiasts, only Tomchri has a V100S; do you know of anybody else who has one?
po18guy Posted January 15 Posted January 15 On 1/11/2024 at 2:08 PM, p6x said: It had to happen, sooner or later! Piaggio wants to have an entry level bike for Moto Guzzi as every other brand is currently purporting; only it will not be one with the legendary V twin; rather, it would use the Aprilia RS 457 parallel twin, and final chain drive. This is not 100% confirmed, it is just a guess: https://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle-news/moto-guzzi-retro-roadster-spy-shots/ Whoever came up with the idea, I think it is a mistake. Moto Guzzi must remain special and different. I am not certain, slapping an Aprila power plant on a Guzzi chassis will do much to promote the brand. The Guzzi identity must be preserved. Why couldn't they take a V7 and make it a V5? Moto Guzzi has made virtually every imaginable engine type. Sure, they are known for the Vs, but like H-D you then live or die by the Vs. Moto Morini has a cracking 1200 87º V-twin, but Euro-7, 8, 9 emissions killed it for the time being. So, what do they offer? A 660cc parallel twin. So, who might make that engine for such a small company? And an Aprilia-engined Guzzi would be 10K+ how entry level is that? Where facts are few, rumors are many.
p6x Posted January 16 Author Posted January 16 5 hours ago, po18guy said: So, who might make that engine for such a small company? Moto Morini is owned by the Chinese Zhongneng Vehicle Group; not really a small company. 1
po18guy Posted January 16 Posted January 16 6 hours ago, p6x said: Moto Morini is owned by the Chinese Zhongneng Vehicle Group; not really a small company. Thanks for that. RIP Moto Morini.
GuzziMoto Posted January 16 Posted January 16 16 hours ago, p6x said: Piaggio has the means to do it, if they want to. But business is business. I had a discussion with Iron Supply Powersports last week; the owner told me he attempted to get Aprilia however Piaggio told him he could only get Aprilia if he took Moto Guzzi too. He told me he checked the sales data of Moto Guzzi in the USA, and declined Piaggio's offer. Even among us, Guzzi enthusiasts, only Tomchri has a V100S; do you know of anybody else who has one? Sure, Piaggio has the money to develop a bespoke small engine for MG, but they are going to look at the numbers and how many they think they can sell. Triumph clearly expects to sell a lot more small Triumphs then MG ever would. No doubt Piaggio looked at the numbers, realized they would never sell enough of them to make their investment back, so they declined to invest in a new bespoke Guzzi engine.. They already have a small displacement engine ready to go from Aprilia, and simply opted to start with that. At least it does look like the frame is not lifted from the little Aprilia. Sharing engines makes sense. But sharing too much makes it a classic badge engineering exercise, and I start loosing interest.
p6x Posted January 16 Author Posted January 16 1 hour ago, GuzziMoto said: Sure, Piaggio has the money to develop a bespoke small engine for MG, but they are going to look at the numbers and how many they think they can sell. Triumph clearly expects to sell a lot more small Triumphs then MG ever would. No doubt Piaggio looked at the numbers, realized they would never sell enough of them to make their investment back, so they declined to invest in a new bespoke Guzzi engine.. They already have a small displacement engine ready to go from Aprilia, and simply opted to start with that. At least it does look like the frame is not lifted from the little Aprilia. Sharing engines makes sense. But sharing too much makes it a classic badge engineering exercise, and I start loosing interest. Yes, my thoughts exactly; Moto Guzzi does not have the numbers to have their own engine. Nevertheless, I would never purchase a Moto Guzzi that I can't identify with. If I may use an analogy, to me, it would be like purchasing a Ducati without an L shaped Desmodromic engine. I know they made mono cylinders in the past, but today, anything Ducati is V2 or V4 Desmo. Even if I am aware they have produced non-Desmo engines like the V4 Granturismo using conventional spring valve return system, to increase maintenance intervals to every 60,000 km.
GuzziMoto Posted January 16 Posted January 16 31 minutes ago, p6x said: Yes, my thoughts exactly; Moto Guzzi does not have the numbers to have their own engine. Nevertheless, I would never purchase a Moto Guzzi that I can't identify with. If I may use an analogy, to me, it would be like purchasing a Ducati without an L shaped Desmodromic engine. I know they made mono cylinders in the past, but today, anything Ducati is V2 or V4 Desmo. Even if I am aware they have produced non-Desmo engines like the V4 Granturismo using conventional spring valve return system, to increase maintenance intervals to every 60,000 km. Fair enough. I get that. In the end, a motorcycle should speak to you. If it doesn't, it probably isn't one you should buy. I do like the new V100 engine. But I imagine other people don't, as it is water cooled.
docc Posted January 16 Posted January 16 7 minutes ago, GuzziMoto said: Fair enough. I get that. In the end, a motorcycle should speak to you. If it doesn't, it probably isn't one you should buy. I do like the new V100 engine. But I imagine other people don't, as it is water cooled. I like to hear one, from the rider's seat, ripping out through the hollows along the creeks. The air-cooled cylinders do have a special *ring* to them, beyond the exhaust note . . .
GuzziMoto Posted January 16 Posted January 16 Yes, the air cooled cylinders do have their acoustic properties. And they have their simplicity, which greatly appeals to me. But they also have trouble with the newest emissions regs. I suspect the days of air cooled motorcycles are numbered. Luckily, the ones MG makes tend to be around for a long time, so I don't think I will still be alive at a time when there are no Moto Guzzi's to be had. 1
audiomick Posted January 16 Posted January 16 On 1/15/2024 at 9:24 PM, p6x said: Even among us, Guzzi enthusiasts, only Tomchri has a V100S; do you know of anybody else who has one? I know two personally. The German forum that I am involved in has about 3,500 members. Really active, maybe a hundred or so. No idea how many look in regularly but don't post. Since the V100 came out, there have been a number of new members who joined because they bought a V100, some of them as their first Guzzi. There is a thread that someone started to record the last four digits of the VIN to see who has the earliest one, and to try and keep track of approximately how many may have been produced. There are currently 29 VINs recorded. The lowest is 0136, and the highest 2135. The bike seems to be selling rather well, at least in Europe. 1
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