R.I.P. Dr John

[GuzziMoto]

I am sad to hear of Dr Johns passing. Life is often too short. Death does not wait for you to be ready.

That Dr John did not invent the spine frame doesn't mean what Dr John did was any less impressive. He also did not invent the internal combustion engine. Everything people are doing nowadays is on the backs of those who came before. Arguably Tony Foale didn't "invent" the spine frame either, as bikes have used spine frames before he "invented" it. A better way of phrasing it might be that Tony Foale helped develop the spine frame that we know.

The Guzzi sideways V twin is a natural fit for a spine frame.

[Pressureangle]

Tony Foale raced Aermacchi-HD singles; they already had a spine frame that worked famously well, which he improved and adapted to other units, most notably MG. The Aermacchi spine dates back to at least 1961.

[docc]

As spine frames go, the Dr. John version of the Daytona and SPOrT 1100 certainly brought an elegance to the otherwise clumsy origins.

Whomever redesigned the "frame side plates" into the fabulously luscious stilettos of the Centauro, 1100 Sport-i and our V11 Sport/Le Mans variants really iced the cake, IMO . . .

[GuzziMoto]

11 hours ago, docc said:

As spine frames go, the Dr. John version of the Daytona and SPOrT 1100 certainly brought an elegance to the otherwise clumsy origins.

Whomever redesigned the "frame side plates" into the fabulously luscious stilettos of the Centauro, 1100 Sport-i and our V11 Sport/Le Mans variants really iced the cake, IMO . . .

Mmmmm, porkchops......

 

;-)

[GuzziMoto]

Just poking you, docc.

Seriously, I love the MGS-01, but there is an elegance to the side plates on the Daytona and its kin. The MGS-01 doesn't use the side plates, which gives the bike a very different look. Not good or bad, just different.

[GuzziMoto]

I should add, I prefer the open hole in the side plates the older versions like the Daytona have. The newer versions are prettier, but I think the slicker casting of the new versions coupled with the open hole of the original Daytona version would be sweet.

Also, the open design of the Daytona version allows you to slide a tube through the frame and securely support the rear of the frame with it. You can't do that with the newer versions. Funny, you can do that with a Griso frame. It also has an open hole through the frame.

[Goofman]

6 hours ago, GuzziMoto said:

I should add, I prefer the open hole in the side plates the older versions like the Daytona have. The newer versions are prettier, but I think the slicker casting of the new versions coupled with the open hole of the original Daytona version would be sweet.

Also, the open design of the Daytona version allows you to slide a tube through the frame and securely support the rear of the frame with it. You can't do that with the newer versions. Funny, you can do that with a Griso frame. It also has an open hole through the frame.

As does the 1200 Sport...

[pete roper]

The earlier pork chops are unfortunately pretty fragile. Any early spiney that has been up the road should really have them removed and crack tested as they do crack if crashed and although they will continue to work for awhile when they do finally let go it tends to be catastrophic as they are what supports the swingarm. Once the integrity of one fails things go to hell in a handbasket bloody quickly and due to the nature of the failure it tends to happen in high speed/high load situations.

[ScuRoo]

On 2/19/2024 at 9:41 PM, GuzziMoto said:

I am sad to hear of Dr Johns passing. Life is often too short. Death does not wait for you to be ready.

That Dr John did not invent the spine frame doesn't mean what Dr John did was any less impressive. He also did not invent the internal combustion engine. Everything people are doing nowadays is on the backs of those who came before. Arguably Tony Foale didn't "invent" the spine frame either, as bikes have used spine frames before he "invented" it. A better way of phrasing it might be that Tony Foale helped develop the spine frame that we know.

The Guzzi sideways V twin is a natural fit for a spine frame.

Everybody who rubbed shoulders with Dr John described him as a kind & generous soul.

Mother Guzzi has never credited Foale for the spine frame to my knowledge - it’s on the company to own up & compensate Foale if warranted.

Speculation of nefarious intent has been attributed to the story of Foale & Dr John.

But does this actually fit with Dr John’s character? It’s patently at odds from those who contributed first hand reports on their Dr John experiences.

Not really worth a pile of beans 🫘 inasmuch to tarnish Dr John’s generosity, passion & contribution to Moto Guzzi’s racing achievement.

Dr John sure knew how to extract reliable high power out of his Guzzi’s.

Bloody legend r.i.p.

[GuzziMoto]

4 hours ago, ScuRoo said:

Everybody who rubbed shoulders with Dr John described him as a kind & generous soul.

Mother Guzzi has never credited Foale for the spine frame to my knowledge - it’s on the company to own up & compensate Foale if warranted.

Speculation of nefarious intent has been attributed to the story of Foale & Dr John.

But does this actually fit with Dr John’s character? It’s patently at odds from those who contributed first hand reports on their Dr John experiences.

Not really worth a pile of beans 🫘 inasmuch to tarnish Dr John’s generosity, passion & contribution to Moto Guzzi’s racing achievement.

Dr John sure knew how to extract reliable high power out of his Guzzi’s.

Bloody legend r.i.p.

I think there have been a few people like that in motorcycling over my lifetime. People who both made amazing contributions to the sport and were also straight up good people. People like John Britten, Erik Buell, and Dr John. I am happy to have met two of those three. And owned motorcycles created by two of the three as well (but not the same two as the first example).

[docc]

[Lucky Phil]

As a general position on technical things I have little regard for "who invented it" or who came up with the original concept or design. My admiration goes to those who perfected or refined the original design or concept into something outstanding. Thats where the real effort, skill and genius is. Some of course manage to do both but who the hell give a damn about the original thought bubble. We don't really care or are interested in the individual that created the first wheel or ancient rocket or bridge or a million other things what we are interested in is the people that came after and utilised the "concept" and made it into a functional, rational, safe and efficient thing. Some ancient Chinese person invented the rocket but it took a lot more smarts to create a Saturn 5 rocket to send man into space. Original thinking is overvalued, methodical development and perfection a design or concept is where the real respect deserves to be.    

 

Phil

[docc]

38 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

As a general position on technical things I have little regard for "who invented it" or who came up with the original concept or design. My admiration goes to those who perfected or refined the original design or concept into something outstanding. Thats where the real effort, skill and genius is. Some of course manage to do both but who the hell give a damn about the original thought bubble. We don't really care or are interested in the individual that created the first wheel or ancient rocket or bridge or a million other things what we are interested in is the people that came after and utilised the "concept" and made it into a functional, rational, safe and efficient thing. Some ancient Chinese person invented the rocket but it took a lot more smarts to create a Saturn 5 rocket to send man into space. Original thinking is overvalued, methodical development and perfection a design or concept is where the real respect deserves to be.    

 

Phil

Well said. Thank you, Lucky_Phil . . .

[4corsa]

I will be very disappointed if the factory does not make a limited edition Dr. John tribute bike or at least a livery as they do for Tenni. We may, as a group, want to relay that to the factory - if there is a formal way of doing so.

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

[Goofman]

I heartily second that motion.  Hopefully, there are factory people that remember his contributions.