No Start and guzzidiag question

[Gritman]

A query here as I'm at wits end....... have just completed a gearbox rebuild and reassembled the bike, not expecting any problems in firing it up again. However, despite good sparks and wet plugs, it will not fire. I've re-checked all the wiring and connections which are all fine. I've even swapped out the crank position sensor (a pattern item was installed so replaced with OE Magnetti Marelli SEN8I3) and ECU (rewriting to correct fuel map) from the working road bike. All to no avail....

It doesnt make any sense. Sparks, fuel and an operating ECU should result in at least some popping and farting surely? Everything else works fine!

The only factor I'm unsure about is the status shown on Guzzidiag of 00001000. Does anyone know what this means?

Any other checks I may have overlooked?

[docc]

The non-start issue certainly deserves a thread of its own, but regarding guzzidiag, check your model selection in Preferences and select your model. It looks like you may be set the "MDS-01" . . .

[Gritman]

Thanks @docc I’m using the MGS01 model as this matches my machine - iaw15m ecu,  PF09 tps, 1225 motor with MGS01 barrels n heads. These settings worked perfectly while developing the fuelling map….. It’s a real headscratcher! I keep thinking I must have missed something obvious 🥸

[docc]

Perhaps @Meinolf could answer the "Status" question regarding guzzidiag . . .

[Lucky Phil]

7 hours ago, Gritman said:

A query here as I'm at wits end....... have just completed a gearbox rebuild and reassembled the bike, not expecting any problems in firing it up again. However, despite good sparks and wet plugs, it will not fire. I've re-checked all the wiring and connections which are all fine. I've even swapped out the crank position sensor (a pattern item was installed so replaced with OE Magnetti Marelli SEN8I3) and ECU (rewriting to correct fuel map) from the working road bike. All to no avail....

It doesnt make any sense. Sparks, fuel and an operating ECU should result in at least some popping and farting surely? Everything else works fine!

The only factor I'm unsure about is the status shown on Guzzidiag of 00001000. Does anyone know what this means?

Any other checks I may have overlooked?

How old is the fuel? Does it have actual fuel pressure ( I know the plugs are wet but maybe the fuel pressure is low and that just causes fuel puddling worse than normal in the intake manifold and drowns the spark) how long since it's been previously run? Are you using std plugs or fine wire plugs? ( once FW plugs are fouled they are junk) Not sure about the GD issue. How do you select the model of bike from the drop down box? I use V11 Sport for my V10 Sport with the same ECU and TPS as you but I'm not sure if I get the IAW15M PF09 or IAW15M PF03C. I think the latter. The TPS identifier shouldn't matter as they are both non linier but what std model uses a 15M PF09 configuration? I can't think of any unless GD reads the actual TPS fitted.

My bike used to be very hard to start and keep running during warm up before I re mapped the cranking enrichment map and revised the engine temp enrichment break points which were based on the V11 sport 2 valve engine in my original 8 valve maps. Now it's very good to start and warm up. There is a process however. Open the fast idle 90% and don't touch the throttle and it fires up withing a few seconds on the starter and goes to 1800 rpm. From there you can back off the fast idle to around 1500 rpm and after about 30 seconds you can use it to keep the rpm at that figure for a minute or two then ride it. 

Phil

[Gritman]

Hey @Lucky Phil good to hear from you😊

Good points made…. Fuel is 4months old and the fine wire plugs have sure been fouled. Back to basics eh? I think fuel pressure is ok as the pump primes and stops once up to pressure, but certainly worth a check if new plugs and fresh fuel don’t do the business. I’ve considered taking the injectors out to check spray pattern ok but that looks like a real PITA once they are out of the TB’s

It’s really messing with my head and I am struggling to understand why a well-running machine can pull this on me after a gearbox build!! But back to basics; fresh fuel, new plugs and see how it goes. Cheers!

[Gritman]

Btw the MGS01 is on the drop-down and uses the PF09 & IAW15M

[audiomick]

1 hour ago, Lucky Phil said:

How do you select the model of bike from the drop down box?

You do that from the "settings" menu before you connect.

 

Quote

what std model uses a 15M PF09 configuration?

I'm not absolutely sure, but I think my 2002 Le Mans comes up with that

 

Quote

I can't think of any unless GD reads the actual TPS fitted.

Once again not absolutely sure, but I think it does. I.e. you tell it what to expect, and then it checks to make sure. But I could be wrong there.

What I'm sure about is that it shows you the version number of the map that is actually installed in that box. If, however, the map has been changed and the name of the file hasn't, that could perhaps lead to confusion.

 

EDIT: if anyone desperately wants to know for sure, I could ask Bernd directly on the German forum.

 

[Lucky Phil]

5 hours ago, audiomick said:

You do that from the "settings" menu before you connect.

 

I'm not absolutely sure, but I think my 2002 Le Mans comes up with that

 

Once again not absolutely sure, but I think it does. I.e. you tell it what to expect, and then it checks to make sure. But I could be wrong there.

What I'm sure about is that it shows you the version number of the map that is actually installed in that box. If, however, the map has been changed and the name of the file hasn't, that could perhaps lead to confusion.

 

EDIT: if anyone desperately wants to know for sure, I could ask Bernd directly on the German forum.

 

I know Mick I've done it a quite a few times. My question is probably better phrased, "What selection do you make for model from the initial drop down box". 

 

That would be weird as the PF09 never reached the V11 series, it was dumped with the Daytona and Centauro I think and didn't even make the 1100IE Sport either I don't think. 

 

Phil

[pete roper]

Daytona, Centy and Sport-I all use the 16M controller to the best of my knowledge.

[Lucky Phil]

52 minutes ago, pete roper said:

Daytona, Centy and Sport-I all use the 16M controller to the best of my knowledge.

Thats true Pete but mine and Gritmans use the 15M with PF09 TPS's. Although the images of the Sport IE I have seen uses the PF03 TPS

 

Phil 

[pete roper]

46 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

Thats true Pete but mine and Gritmans use the 15M with PF09 TPS's. Although the images of the Sport IE I have seen uses the PF03 TPS

 

Phil 

Bloody wogs!

[Gritman]

My two pennorth on the tps discussion…. About a decade ago I built my first V10 engined V11 and at that time Guzzidiag was relatively new and while aware of it, I’d not used it. I’d seen folks doing the engine swap and keeping the 16M. I’d had some experience of the 16M fitting a Creedon chip to my Centauro, but liked the idea of the 15M and using Guzzidiag to dial in the fuelling etc. I’d also lusted after an MGS01 and noted that it too used the 15M. I chose to use a V11 donor bike for the 6-speed box (MGS01 again) hydraulic clutch, better transmission and - importantly - the shorter wheelbase and steeper fork rake of the earlier models. Still got that bike and love it. It still wasn’t quite there though. A bit too heavy and you can never have too much power 💪. With a spare V10 motor sitting in the workshop, the idea of my (presently troublesome)project bike began to form. So some 7 years later and lighter by way more than I’d budgeted, here we are. IMHO this is a poor man’s MGS01, and considered that way it’s quite a bargain - and with its old school appearance looks the dogs bollocks. It’s a shame that I’ve aged so much and ruined a shoulder in the meantime but  blasting around the Dorset countryside on it makes me as happy as any man has the right to be. 

 This wonderful forum has been a source of technical know how, advice and moral support throughout all this! Thanks and Ride on Brothers👍

Now, time to go and get some new plugs and fuel and sort this thing out. Summers coming 🌞 

[Guzzijens]

19 hours ago, Gritman said:

Hey @Lucky Phil good to hear from you😊

Good points made…. Fuel is 4months old and the fine wire plugs have sure been fouled. Back to basics eh? I think fuel pressure is ok as the pump primes and stops once up to pressure, but certainly worth a check if new plugs and fresh fuel don’t do the business. I’ve considered taking the injectors out to check spray pattern ok but that looks like a real PITA once they are out of the TB’s

It’s really messing with my head and I am struggling to understand why a well-running machine can pull this on me after a gearbox build!! But back to basics; fresh fuel, new plugs and see how it goes. Cheers!

That the pump stops doesnt always mean it build pressure, it is controlled by the ecu and goes a specific time when the ignition is switch on

[Gritman]

Hmmm. I’ll look at that