Strange goings on

[innesa]

Good evening, comrades

As some of you know, I have a faulty V11, the writing on the body says it is a Le Mans, but the ECU declares it a Sport. Is this a Schrodinger's cat scenario?

I'm always up for a philosophical discussion on quantum physics, however, at this point, I'd like to have your attention on the following:

My V11 Whatever has a rather poor fuel efficiency. I filled the tank the other day (said in a Wayne from Letterkenny way).

The odometer read 190km, & the 21-litre tank took 19 litres to fill — a disappointing return, to be sure.

I had balanced the throttle bodies, & altered the CO trim from -90 to 0, however, the mileage from a tank of guzzilene has not changed.

I contacted a fellow member of the Moto Guzzi Club of Victoria, who is a great source of knowledge & information. I believe he cut his teeth on a Tenni...

Anyway, one of his suggestions was to take the leads off the plugs to see what the response was, in terms of engine cutting out.

I took off the right lead, & sure enough, the engine cut out after about 10 seconds. Having replaced the lead, & restarting the engine, I removed the left lead, & whilst lumpy, the engine continued to idle without cutting out.

What gives? And what does this mean, if anything?

Other things that have been suggested (leaving out the tune etc that have been posted numerous times (with a nod to Pete Roper)) in the email reply that I received, & posted below for your consideration.

So far, I have only done the leads thing. I routinely put in the fuel cleaner & give it a bit of a blast.

I will value any input people have regarding this issue.

Cheers

innesa

Quote

 

Hi Andrew,

Fuel consumption that high!!!

Is this a recent problem or over a long time?

What colour are the plugs?  
What difference on either side?
ie Is the problem both sides running rich or just one?

At idle and warm.. when you pull a single plug lead off how many bangs before it stalls? should be about 5
Repeat for the other side.  This tells you how good throttle balance is but also may help find the problem if only on one side.

Is the tank physically empty ( I think you can't get the last 2 litres out to the engine )
So refuel around 20 litres

Internal fuel filter and pump I think on that model. It's hidden, so may never been cleaned/checked!
Pull it and check it's clean, no poor connections...

I found the air intake rubbers a pain on all 1100/1200 and you have to fight hard to get them properly seated on the airbox/intake tubes.
A little bit of INOX spray lube helps!
The rubber is quite tough and I would not expect leaks except if there is physical cracking.
I reckon that there is that much air rushing in a small leak will make little difference.
When running and blip throttle ...I check them by making smoke around the area...with a torch, you can readily see air movement
(Do a Bill Clinton and do not inhale!)

Need Guzzi diag for following...do you have a setup ???? ( I still have one ) 

The map V11 IAW 15M ECU Titanium 2.bin I reckon is fine ( came from Beetle )
Absolutely fixed my Tenni.     Is that the map that's in it?
Have another one that came from Beetle ...V11 IAW 15M ECU Titanium_FuelMain 2.bin  (I can't recall what the difference is but sounds interesting!

 

CO setting as I understand it only makes a difference at a constant speed and not during acceleration/ deceleration...
You need a CO monitor setup to make any meaningful changes. Don't reckon that's a problem.

2 x Sensors located between cylinders flake out over time and need replacing. cheap and easy to replace / these 2 are located on LHS in front of the cylinder head.
Engine Temperature sensor...maybe giving ECU weird readings and changing mixture
Engine Dwell sensor...tracks the crankshaft and timing. ( the clearance to the crank is important )

Never touched fuel injection sensors on my last 3 Guzzis.
Just put injection sensor cleaner in petrol every 10K and give it a good hot run.
Old fuel really clogs things up all around on fuel-injection bikes. Regular beatings are required!
And park it up with plenty of fuel in the tank

Also, any drag in the wheels....bearings or brake binding?

engine oil correct spec...also not too much I have been told around 3/4 to top line is fine.

Air filter ...correct one and clean...any oil in the base of the filter housing?

 

 

[docc]

I see no mention of setting the TPS baseline...

[GuzziMoto]

23 miles per gallon would be very bad fuel mileage. You should be getting near twice that. I would start with a basic tune up........

 

[innesa]

20 hours ago, GuzziMoto said:

23 miles per gallon would be very bad fuel mileage. You should be getting near twice that. I would start with a basic tune up........

 

Yeah, that's on the cards, & exactly the post that I was referring to regarding the tune up. I have had the bike serviced relatively recently, so one would hope that this was undertaken when that occurred. It's this excess fuel burning that has me scratching my head. And I don't know if it's in my head, but I can swear that I can smell unburned fuel, especially as I am blipping the throttle when changing down gear.

Thank you for your reply. Any thoughts re the lead issue?

Cheers

[innesa]

22 hours ago, docc said:

I see no mention of setting the TPS baseline...

Hi docc. 

I have just re-read the decent tune thread that GuzziMoto posted to remind myself what exactly that entails. 

I've got a bit to look at; I'll keep all y'all updated when I get onto it. 

[docc]

On 4/16/2024 at 6:15 AM, innesa said:

Thank you for your reply. Any thoughts re the lead issue?

Cheers

I think that is "mis-leading."

When you work through the Decent Tune-up, I suspect you will find the valves off, perhaps one quite tight.

If Shrödinger's cat set your CO at -90, then I wonder where he thought he set your TPS . . .

[GuzziMoto]

3 hours ago, innesa said:

Yeah, that's on the cards, & exactly the post that I was referring to regarding the tune up. I have had the bike serviced relatively recently, so one would hope that this was undertaken when that occurred. It's this excess fuel burning that has me scratching my head. And I don't know if it's in my head, but I can swear that I can smell unburned fuel, especially as I am blipping the throttle when changing down gear.

Thank you for your reply. Any thoughts re the lead issue?

Cheers

By the "Lead Issue' do you mean the odd behavior you got when unplugging one sparkplug lead and then the other?

I am not sure what that test was meant to show. I would have expected it to run on either cylinder, although poorly. It does seem to indicate that one cylinder runs worse then the other as one cylinder kept running with the other one off while the other one did not. I have not done that sort of test on purpose, but I have accidentally made a twin run on just one cylinder. I did not learn anything from that, however.

With your fuel mileage as poor as it is I would expect you can smell fuel, it is using near twice as much fuel to run as it should. Honestly, that could be a real problem as that much fuel going through the motor could wash oil off the cylinder walls.

[p6x]

I am not well experienced in Guzzi, but spark plugs coloring used to be a tattle tale before.

We would remove the spark plugs, clean them up, install them and run the engine for a few miles and check the color to get some clue about the fuelling.

[stewgnu]

well it may or may not be pertinent to your troubles, but i had dreadful fuel consumption once that i eventually realised was due to a nasty crack in the exhaust near the lambda sensor (crossover area).  So maybe check that whilst you’re scanning about?

[Lucky Phil]

5 hours ago, stewgnu said:

well it may or may not be pertinent to your troubles, but i had dreadful fuel consumption once that i eventually realised was due to a nasty crack in the exhaust near the lambda sensor (crossover area).  So maybe check that whilst you’re scanning about?

A 2001 Le Mans won't have a lambda sensor will it?

 

Phil

[docc]

28 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

A 2001 Le Mans won't have a lambda sensor will it?

 

Phil

Certainly not in the USA. Did Australia get any Lambda V11?

[Lucky Phil]

23 minutes ago, docc said:

Certainly not in the USA. Did Australia get any Lambda V11?

Oops I missed the fellow Aussie connection. Here Lambda and when? Not sure. Pete might chime in and let us know. Another reason for poor fuel economy in an old not ridden much bike....leaking fuel injectors. This would be my first line of action in the absence of the bleeding obvious other reasons.

You could check them on the bike I guess as a back yard method. Remove the injector, reconnect the feed hose and wiring connector and turn on the ignition a few times and see if it leaks anything. The lines maintain pressure for a while with the ignition off and even a few drops/ minute would be bad.

Phil

 

 

[pete roper]

Yes, we got bikes with the 15M-RC and lambda input but not until pretty late in the day.

A quick gurn at the parts lists says 2003 models got Lambda input.

[audiomick]

On 4/17/2024 at 2:05 AM, Lucky Phil said:

....leaking fuel injectors.

You could check them on the bike I guess as a back yard method

If I were to do that, I would use Guzzidiag. It has a function to activate the injectors manually. This allows one to see if they are working, how much they are injecting (catch it in a glass and measure the volume), and what the spray pattern looks like (put a piece of paper in front of the injector whilst it is being activated). During the process, as the ignition is on all the while, it should also be possible to see if they are leaking, I reckon.