Griso colors along the years Red to Orange?

[p6x]

I am wondering if Guzzi produced earlier Griso models using a Ducati Red, and later Orange?

The one here below is a 2007 equipped with a 2008 1200S engine. It really looks good, and the engine has been completely rebuilt, says the owner. 4,300 USD...

10,00 miles on Engine on r with new rings, lower end bearings, cam, cam bearings, oil pump and seals at Renaissance cycle. Total declared mileage is 37,000 miles.

I am uneasy about why was the engine completely rebuilt at 37K. What a looker! So there were Griso equipped with 1200S and later 1200SE engines?

Then there is that other one: 2015 and 6900 USD. See the pictures below the 2007 one. It does look "less" Red than the first one, doesn't it?

Thoughts?

Griso 2015:

[activpop]

You are comparing different models with different engines. At some point they went to the newer color scheme when they upped the displacement and changed to the 4 valve head. Not sure when the colors changed, but the engine was upgraded by 2008. I personally prefer the matte reddish orange to the older shiny red, plus the extra power. That's why I bought one. I think it is a work of art, just like a nice shiny V11.

[pete roper]

Both the older 2-VPC models, both 850 and 1100, were made in the flat red. There were also a couple of runs of 1200-8V models with the flat red. The Griso was never produced with the 1200-2VPC motor, not in any colour.

Apart from the swap to a roller top end in the middle of 2012 all the 1200-8V Grisos are essentially identical apart from the 2015 on models using the Cali 1400 sump. 
 

Both Bill Hagan and I had flat red Griso 1200’s. Here’s one of a much younger me and my Griso Pinko in LA!

 

 

[GuzziMoto]

The 2007 model Griso's in the USA were only made with the 2 VPC 1100cc motor. They started selling them in 2006, but called them 2007 model year bikes. After a couple years of that they switched over to the new 1200 8V motor. There was also a 2VPC 1200 motor, but that was never offered in a Griso.

If that Griso really has a motor from a 1200S it may be a case of someone blowing up the motor and finding a rebuilt 1200S motor to replace it with. But why the original 1100 motor blew up or why the 1200S motor it was replaced with needed rebuilding would be a scary question you probably don't want to know the answer to. There is no good answer for why such a young Guzzi motor needs rebuilding. Your best saving grace is probably that whatever caused those two motors to fail isn't really important to you, all that matters to you is that the person rebuilding the 1200S motor knew what they were doing and did a good job. Is the question here which one of those two Griso's would be the one to buy? If so, I would say mechanically the newer 8V bike has the better engine for power but the older engine is probably more fuel efficient and reliable. The first gen of 8V motor had serious mechanical issues but by 2015 they had pretty much resolved all that so the newer one should have a better motor, but there is something to be said for the stone axe simple motor in the first gen. But if that motor is not the motor it came with and has been meddled with all bets are off. I would pick the newer 8V Griso between those two. As to the name of the color, the first one, the 2V one, is red while the second one I would say is orange (not red). It didn't start out as red and fade to that color, it was always that semi-flat orange. They offered the SE version in a couple different interesting colors like that. For example in 2013 you could get an SE in a silver/black combo with the same design but what was orange on that one was silver. I don't think that orange color was ever offered for the 2V Griso.

As mentioned, it is a little confusing with the various big block options from the CARC days. The original Griso in the USA only came in a two valve per cylinder layout. They made an 1100cc and 850cc version of that two valve per cylinder motor, but I have never seen an 850 version in the USA (they may be here, but I never saw one). Then they switched to the 8V motor, meaning four valves per cylinder. They called it an 8 valve motor likely to differentiate it from the older 4 valve per cylinder designs like the Daytona and Lario. So, a 2V motor has two valves per cylinder while the 8V motor has four valves per cylinder.

The SE designation was not referring to the motor but rather labeling the model a Special Edition, or SE. It had fancy paint and wire wheels as I recall, but motor wise it was the same 8V motor used in other Griso's of that year. Mainly with Griso's in the US there are the 1100cc 2V motors that they originally came with for the first couple years and then after that they switched to the 8V motors. You can typically tell which are which by looking at the cylinder heads / valve covers. I am pretty sure in Pete's picture his red Griso is an 8V 1200 motor while the black Griso next to his is an earlier 2V 1100cc motor.

Interesting side note, the first gen Griso with the 1100cc 2V motor can use earlier 2V valve covers from the V11 Sport era. Where as the 8V motors use a completely different valve cover that is in no way interchangeable with the earlier motors.

Edited June 26 by GuzziMoto

[p6x]

@GuzziMoto Thank you very much for taking the time to go into the details!

I got in touch with the seller last night. I really like this Red color, which has the same effect of the muleta on the bull... although the tradition to have a red Muleta has nothing to do with enraging the bull.

Some of what he said confuses me, but he may have provided me with some general knowledge information on the Griso, not about the specific Griso he sells.

here's an excerpt of the exchange:

-A 1200S is a sporty version of a Breva. Sold in the US for one year.

-I am using the wheels from a 2013 Griso.

-I bought a 2013 Griso at an insurance auction for the motor.

Question: But a 2013 Griso would have had the 4 valves head, correct? not the 1200S 2 valves engine?

Like you, I am always uncomfortable with modified motorcycles, unless all the changes are documented properly.

 

 

[pete roper]

A 2013 Griso would have originally used the 1200cc, 8V Hi Cam motor. Presumably that was blown up and the entire motive unit was swapped out for one from a 2V 1200 Sport as the clutch and gearbox are not interchangeable between the two motive units.

While the 2V motive unit would slip straight in to the later cycleparts there would be other issues to address like the inlet trumpets from the airbox to throttlebodies as the 8V used 50mm throttlebodies where as the 2V models use smaller 45(?) mm units.

[Lucky Phil]

7 hours ago, GuzziMoto said:

 

Interesting side note, the first gen Griso with the 1100cc 2V motor can use earlier 2V valve covers from the V11 Sport era. 

This is true.

[PJPR01]

It sounds like the first one had 2 engines...something happened to the original engine, and then the replacement 1200S was also rebuilt...very odd.  Sounds like buying a Frankenstein.

Now the 1200 S (Breva Sport) was a very nice bike...think of it as a Naked Norge...but it was tuned differently than the Norge if I recall correctly, had some nice aesthetics as well (white gauges...unfortunately would leak or fog up)...but came in Red and Black...a stunning looking bike indeed...very fun to ride.  I was in possession of one for a couple of weeks years ago having bought it for some folks who were visiting and then took possession.

As an owner of a Red/Black 2015 Griso I can attest that it's a fabulous bike and honestly it's a work of art, and unique.  The second option above being all stock I would (if the temptation exists) err on buying the newer unmolested one, then an older Frankenstein...no matter how well it was put together.

Now...bear in mind...the Griso is not a bike that one immediately bonds with...it does take some time and configurations/modifications are needed to get it setup for your ergonomics.  With a longer wheelbase, the suspension is also in need of attention (proper sag and rebound, possibly replace the soft stock spring), and likely bar risers or modified bars, lowered foot pegs and a good seat as the stock one is beautiful but uncomfortable.  Once all of that is done, it's an all day touring beast...amazing power, 40 mpg regularly, and just never runs out of power up to triple digits.  A good fairing or screen is needed, and these are rare so most folks put a Dart Marlin on...I was lucky to get a Givi A770 from Kindoy (same as Pete has on his red one) and it transforms the bike aerodynamically to absolutely perfectly smooth air at any speed.

Grisos are wonderful beasts...and live up to their namesake!

Edited June 26 by PJPR01

[pete roper]

Actually you can use the rocker covers from any ‘Square Head’ 2-Valve model from 1983 to the end of 2-Valve production. The head castings are essentially identical for all of them so the mating surface joint is the same for head and rocker cover on all of them. From the MkIII LeMans and T5 all the way through to the very last Cali Vintages. All the same!

[GuzziMoto]

Yeah, the modern 2V heads can all use the same valve covers. I swapped the valve covers on my 2V Griso for an aftermarket set made for V11 Sports and the like. It never occurred  to me to swap a set of Griso valve covers on to a V11 Sport, I never really liked the look of the valve covers on the 2V Griso. But to each their own I reckon....

@p6x, Yeah, what you are posting as what they said doesn't make sense. There may be something lost in translation. A 2013 Griso could only have an 8V motor from the factory. In fact, there was never a point when you could get a Griso from Moto Guzzi with a choice of 2V motor or 8V motor. They made the 2V Griso for the first couple years of production and then switched to the 8V Griso. The standard solid red Griso pictured above clearly has a 2V motor in it. Is it a motor from a 1200 Sport? I don't know, could be. But it is clearly not a motor from a 2013 Griso, that would have been an 8V motor, the valve covers would look like the orange and black Griso also pictured above. As Pete said, you could swap a 2V motor into a Griso that originally came with an 8V motor, or vice versa. But it would require a fair amount of work with lots of other little bits also needing to be swapped out as part of the swap. Often with swaps like that it is the details that get you.

I am a big fan of the Griso, on my 2V Griso all I needed was a different set of handlebars as the stock bars had a weird bend to them. Once that was resolved I found the bike super comfortable and remarkably fast. For me it is a couch of a bike that handles great and goes fast. A true GT bike. It almost seems wrong for a couch to go that fast. I would happily buy a newer 8V Griso, as long as it is a roller motor. And 2013 and newer are roller motors, but it is easy enough to confirm. The 8V motor has more power, and that is a good thing. The 2V motor is no slouch, but the chassis can clearly handle more.

[p6x]

@GuzziMoto

I learn the hard way that heavily modified motorcycles are difficult to sell. Documenting the changes as they are implemented helps, but generally speaking, you usually look for a stock motorcycle, possibly make your own changes. Normally, potential buyers are wary of bikes modified to improve performances, or like in this case, the engine had a complete overhaul.

While the overhaul may have been part of reliability centered maintenance, it is still not inspiring confidence.

Pity, as I really liked that red color without any black appointments. Besides, $4,300 is reasonable. The actual bike looks good and I would have been fine with only two valves per cylinder.

That being said, I do recognize that having a 1200 8V would be nice. The Griso definitively fits well in the desired purchase, but I can't help but like better the all red one.

 

 

[p6x]

Who could resist a Griso?

The Redneck one is still the most aesthetically pleasing... sorry!

 

Edited June 27 by p6x

[GuzziMoto]

Bikes are fairly cheap to paint. I would buy the mechanically better option. If you need it to be a particular color that is easy enough to do. You could not pay me to have that red 2V Griso, especially given the weird back-story of it. It is a hodge-podge of parts off different Griso's it seems, down to the wheels. But then I like the orange and black 2013 you also pictured. I like that color scheme.

Edited June 27 by GuzziMoto

[activpop]

When you call my Griso orange I see red...

[p6x]

1 hour ago, GuzziMoto said:

Bikes are fairly cheap to paint. I would buy the mechanically better option. If you need it to be a particular color that is easy enough to do. You could not pay me to have that red 2V Griso, especially given the weird back-story of it. It is a hodge-podge of parts off different Griso's it seems, down to the wheels. But then I like the orange and black 2013 you also pictured. I like that color scheme.

I understand your line of thinking. I mean the 1100S versus the 1200.

The second Griso shown in my post is actually a 2015, $6,900 17k miles.

There is a third Griso, same Orange/Black, 2016, $7,500 4.7k miles.

As a quick comparison, the Orange/Black 1200 NTX Stelvio that I have was following since 2023, $6900 32k miles.

What do you think of this add? Seat down and read:

2017 Moto Guzzi griso 1200 8v se 13k miles... $18,880...