ECU talk

[pete roper]

Nope. Thing is before reading that puff piece on ABC Local I’d never heard of that particular myth.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-06-29/captains-flat-hotel-reopens-sharanne-witt-southern-nsw/104018176

Back when the mine was open things could get pretty wild at The Flat. Floating Schooners would be the least of the problems I’d think!

[guzzler]

Ha ha reckon you'd be right there about floating glasses...flying ones perhaps?

Thanks for posting the link to explain for others.

Cheers 

[Rox Lemans]

An ECU tune..... Hard to do in the states...Not to get political, but some of the first executive orders in 2021 was an order ending any type of tuning due to EPA emissions. If you know a guy that'll tune your stuff, go have at it. Just don't post about it. The EPA will prolly arrest the dude and fine him. I found this out when I was working with Guhl Engineering for my Hondas. They did my CB1100 in 2020. The thing runs almost like a liter sport bike without the governor, restrictions, cat, and the tune. But when I went to take my Valkyrie tune to them (sorry if it's not Guzzi related), they told me they couldn't tune it due to restrictions. UNless I showed proof the bike would not be used on public roads.  Yep, like that. 

But I guess using piggybacks (Power Commanders, Bazzaz, ect) is okay. For whatever that means. Don't bother trying to make sense of it. It doesn't. 

But there may be some ECU tuning kits available prior to the Executive order.. I know GuzziTech had one... Check e-bay. Or maybe he could have found a legal loophole to tune.. You'd have to call. You're taking a a bit of risk with using free downloads to your ECU.. Especially with a newer bike. Piaggio would certainly not cover you. They barely cover the normal stuff.  

[pete roper]

Yet another advantage to the older ECU’s, you can do it all yourself with a couple of cables and some freeware. 
 

Unless they actually download the map and analyse it how are the EPA going to know?

[GuzziMoto]

12 hours ago, pete roper said:

Yet another advantage to the older ECU’s, you can do it all yourself with a couple of cables and some freeware. 
 

Unless they actually download the map and analyse it how are the EPA going to know?

Issues come into play when people breaking the law get overly cocky and start publicly bragging about what they are doing in an effort to gather more business. The EPA generally doesn't go after individual owners, but they will go after companies selling illegal modifications. And if you are doing something illegal you probably should keep quiet and discrete about it. But when you are rolling in money I guess it is easy to forget that what you are doing to make all that money is illegal.

The good thing is, with progress the stock tunes are getting better and better, and the need to actually tune a motor, even after mods like exhaust and intake mods, is becoming less and less.

Edited Monday at 03:25 PM by GuzziMoto

[Gmc28]

thanks pete and everyone for the responses.  and congrats Pete on the retirement, and for evading the schooner ghost!  Maybe you weren't drinking enough to attract the ghost?

The V85tt ECU issue isn't one keeping me up at night, but things in general probably won't ever revert back to the times when there were no ECU's, nor to the times when we had (have) ECU's that could more readily (and carefully) be modified for benefit, so getting a grip on the current techno-reality remains of interest, despite it being frankly annoying.

True that the V85tt actually fuels pretty well, as was alluded in this string about modern mapping, so there's no burning need as-is, and only a bit more need/want once it has a different (still quiet) exhaust installed (this winter).  Just a cost/benefit question, as always, with the variables shifting a bit.  Now the cost seems very high to fix something that isn't much of a real problem.  Hence the questions...

speaking of good factory fueling, I test rode the new Stelvio at the MG owners club confab this last weekend at John Day (was a good time, but thats another story).  I can't help myself from being a bit of a contrarian, so i'm used to test riding new bikes that are getting a lot of buzz and inevitably coming away think "eh, not that great".  But speaking only for myself and what I like, I can say I REALLY LIKED that Stelvio.   Enough said on that here in this thread, except to say that it's low end fueling  (and throughout the rpm band) seemed just fine.  I think on that bike the suspension is also effected by the mode setting and all from the ECU, unlike the V85tt, though I didn't mess with those ride modes during my 30 min ride. 

still don't understand why upmap and a PC6 would differ though, other than the generalities.

[docc]

5 hours ago, GuzziMoto said:

Issues come into play when people breaking the law get overly cocky and start publicly bragging about what they are doing in an effort to gather more business. The EPA generally doesn't go after individual owners, but they will go after companies selling illegal modifications. And if you are doing something illegal you probably should keep quiet and discrete about it. But when you are rolling in money I guess it is easy to forget that what you are doing to make all that money is illegal.

"PSSST! Hey! Hey-ya, buddy . . . come let me whip a tune on that Goozzee of yours " . . .

[pete roper]

On that subject of ‘Factory Mapping’ even on *Older* machines it was quite possible for factories to build decent maps if they put their mind to it. My Manas, which use the same W5AM as the CARC series Guzzis have always fuelled up impeccably. There were two or three ‘Map updates’ issued during the manufacturing life of the bike and I’m not even sure if the updates had anything to do with the fuelling as none of them seemed to make a lick of difference to fuelling or fuel economy and they always fuelled up perfectly.

Why the early maps for the 8V CARC bikes were such a clusterf*ck is beyond me? It shouldn’t of been that difficult.

[Lucky Phil]

9 minutes ago, pete roper said:

On that subject of ‘Factory Mapping’ even on *Older* machines it was quite possible for factories to build decent maps if they put their mind to it. My Manas, which use the same W5AM as the CARC series Guzzis have always fuelled up impeccably. There were two or three ‘Map updates’ issued during the manufacturing life of the bike and I’m not even sure if the updates had anything to do with the fuelling as none of them seemed to make a lick of difference to fuelling or fuel economy and they always fuelled up perfectly.

Why the early maps for the 8V CARC bikes were such a clusterf*ck is beyond me? It shouldn’t of been that difficult.

Yes Pete. My RE 650 fuels perfectly, and I mean perfectly all the time. back in the late 90's I owned 2 Triumph Daytona triples a 98 and a 99 model. Both had Sagem injection and were a year apart in manufacture dates and in the 12 months Triumph had learned absolutely zero about how to get them to fuel nicely despite numerous map updates. Still stalled pulling up to traffic lights regularly etc. My mate had a customer Daytona race bike in the shop and retro fitted a Motec ECU to it and we went to the dyno to map it and Pete had it perfect in about 20 min on the dyno. Sagem and Triumph couldn't get them right for years. That dyno run was interesting in that Pete ran the bike up to redline in 4th or 5th gear and on the run down unplugged the original Sagem ECU and installed the Motec and it just continued running as it came back to idle. Then the fine tuning started.

 

Edited Monday at 11:04 PM by Lucky Phil

[pete roper]

Met up with Mark today and asked him about the map/file sizes of the respective ECU’s. The 7SM which was a pretty complex device is apparently about 720Kb. The MP11? How does roughly 3.5 Mb sound!!? That’s a LOT of information!

 

Edited yesterday at 03:17 AM by pete roper