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[TJH]

Hello

Hoping to get some ideas / expert knowledge from the v11 brains trust.

MY 2000 RM started missing , running very roughly and blowing excessive black smoke ( both cylinders ) recently. I nursed it home and I’m trying to sort it out as the local shops aren’t very keen on working on an old guzzi.

After changing the plugs and fuel filter I tested the air temp and engine temp sensors which were fine. I decided I’d work my way through the “decent tune up” which is excellent  by the way. 

My problem is when setting the tps I am only getting between 2 and 4 mv at my multi meter. I have tried 2 decent multimeters with the same result.
Has anybody had this experience ?
I thought I would ask the question in case I am missing something simple.

Any feedback would be much appreciated.

Regards Tony

[MartyNZ]

The TPS should read 157mV when the RH throttle is closed fully, well below the idle setting. I think you would see about  400-500mV at idle. To get the butterfly fully closed, the RH end of the interconnecting rod ball joint needs to be popped off, and the idle stop screw needs to be backed out until it doesn't hold the throttle open. 

If the  voltage reading doesn't change smoothly from below idle to WOT, then it's time to get a new TPS.

Don't ignore the tiniest cracks in the rubber tubes between the throttle bodies and inlet stubs. Replacing these should be a 10 year routine job.

[Lucky Phil]

1 hour ago, TJH said:

Hello

Hoping to get some ideas / expert knowledge from the v11 brains trust.

MY 2000 RM started missing , running very roughly and blowing excessive black smoke ( both cylinders ) recently. I nursed it home and I’m trying to sort it out as the local shops aren’t very keen on working on an old guzzi.

After changing the plugs and fuel filter I tested the air temp and engine temp sensors which were fine. I decided I’d work my way through the “decent tune up” which is excellent  by the way. 

My problem is when setting the tps I am only getting between 2 and 4 mv at my multi meter. I have tried 2 decent multimeters with the same result.
Has anybody had this experience ?
I thought I would ask the question in case I am missing something simple.

Any feedback would be much appreciated.

Regards Tony

AS pointed out the MV setting is for a fully shut throttle blade on the RH cylinder with the idle stop backed out and the fast idle lever clear of the cam. I use a small tie wrap to hold the rh throttle blade fully shut to set the MVolts with the LH throttle blade disconnected via the circlip holding the linkage on the LH throttle actuating mechanism. Once the MV's are set I then confirm the connecting rod pin will slide through the l/h throttle blade bush with that blade fully bottomed in the throttle body bore then re connect the linkage. 

 

Phil

[TJH]

Thanks for your responses.

I had the idle screw backed out and the link arm disconnected. RH throttle completely closed , key on and engine kill switch on .

I am not getting anything above 2 to 4 mv .
This is a new tps  which is getting the same readings as the original.  🤔

Appreciate any further thoughts. 

 

[audiomick]

9 hours ago, TJH said:

...I am only getting between 2 and 4 mv at my multi meter.

Hi Tony.

I reckon you're measuring something incorrectly.

In case you don't have one, I think the wiring diagram on page 364 of this PDF should match your 2000 model.

https://guzzitek.org/gb/ma_us_uk/1100/V11_1999-2003_Atelier(Compil-GB-D-NL).pdf

Anyway, there are three contacts on the TPS. Two of them are across the complete resistance of the TPS, and you should see very close to 5 V. between them.

The third contact is the slider that delivers a "split the difference" voltage depending on where it is along the resistance. When it is at the closed end, you should see said 157 mv between it and one of the other contacts. Between it and the contact at the "full open" end of the resistance, you should see nearly the full 5 V when the slider is in the "fully closed" position (spilt the difference, 5V - 157 mv...).

If you are only seeing 2 to 4 mV, and that also with a new TPS, I strongly suspect that you are not getting a good measurement, maybe not making contact with the probes or something.

How are you measuring (making the contacts)? Have you got a breakout to do the measurement, or are you sticking pins down the side of the plug, or how?

 

Edited July 4 by audiomick

[gstallons]

Plug your old TPS into the wiring harness and see what readings you get. Take a tool and rotate the inside of the TPS to dee if you get n increase in v when doing this . 

The TPS connector has 3 pins A B and C. C is signal return. A and B are voltage and gnd. Connecting a DVOM to C and either A or B will give you an increase or decrease in v when the throttle is applied. 

 Make sure you are installing the TPS correctly when you put it into the top of the throttle body or it will NOT work correctly. I have a harness out in the shop and will have to see which way is correct.

[PJPR01]

Make sure your volt meter is set to Milli Volts not any other Volts…or your decimal reading will be off and hard to see if you are truly seeing 157 MV versus 0.2 KV or 2V.

 

Also highly recommend getting a Casper Cable to connect as that’s much easier to use than poking wires into the harness.

Edited July 4 by PJPR01

[audiomick]

18 minutes ago, PJPR01 said:

Also highly recommend getting a Casper Cable to connect as that’s much easier to use than poking wires into the harness.

Yes, absolutely. I fortunately got one of those with the bike when I bought it.

This is the article in question:

http://www.casperselectronics.com/cart/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=853

 

[gstallons]

I have one and I soldered a pair of Fluke meter leads on to the correct terminals so you can attach the jumper harness and plug right into the DVOM and get a good reading .

[gstallons]

I went o/s and found my leads , it is A to C you hook up to in order check the v  on the TPS . BTW , go ahead and get the jumper harness.  You want to get perfect readings on this adjustment.

[Lucky Phil]

11 hours ago, TJH said:

Thanks for your responses.

I had the idle screw backed out and the link arm disconnected. RH throttle completely closed , key on and engine kill switch on .

I am not getting anything above 2 to 4 mv .
This is a new tps  which is getting the same readings as the original.  🤔

Appreciate any further thoughts. 

 

I suspect you have the wires connected to the wrong terminals. One of the manuals is wrong when it comes to the outer terminal to connect to. Try using the centre and the other outer terminal. 

Phil

[docc]

29 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

I suspect you have the wires connected to the wrong terminals. One of the manuals is wrong when it comes to the outer terminal to connect to. Try using the centre and the other outer terminal. 

Phil

From the "Decent Tune-up" . . .

Black/purple (N/Vi = nero/viola) is positive and purple/ violet (Vi = viola) is negative.

(Caspers breakout harness pictured along with my former "back probing" pins):

[gstallons]

According to one diagram A (violet) is v source and C (violet/black is signal return . Maybe red frames .

 Then another diagram shows  A (violet) as v source and B (yellow) is signal return . Black frames ?  And what is bad , I used this harness to adjust TPS on my red frame and black frame bikes.

 You practice on the TPS that is not on the bike and see what you get .  

BTW , is your bike a red or black frame ?

 The outer terminals on the connector are the ones I am using to test TPS v. A is violet , B is yellow and C is violet/black stripe. 

 Good luck . 

Edited July 4 by gstallons

[Lucky Phil]

11 minutes ago, gstallons said:

According to one diagram A is v source and C is signal return . Maybe red frames .Then another diagram shows  A as v source and B is signal return . Black frames ?

 You practice on the TPS that is not on the bike and see what you get .  

BTW , is your bike a red or black frame ?

Now I think about it the manual fault was in a manual I have for the Daytona and 1100 Sport IE. One had the PF03 and the other the PF09 but the pins are not the same orientation. The manual didn't differentiate this which led to confusion for me making an adaptor cable as has my previous post.

Phil  

[docc]

37 minutes ago, gstallons said:

According to one diagram A (violet) is v source and C (violet/black is signal return . Maybe red frames .

 Then another diagram shows  A (violet) as v source and B (yellow) is signal return . Black frames ?  And what is bad , I used this harness to adjust TPS on my red frame and black frame bikes.

 You practice on the TPS that is not on the bike and see what you get .  

BTW , is your bike a red or black frame ?

 The outer terminals on the connector are the ones I am using to test TPS v. A is violet , B is yellow and C is violet/black stripe. 

 Good luck . 

 

21 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

Now I think about it the manual fault was in a manual I have for the Daytona and 1100 Sport IE. One had the PF03 and the other the PF09 but the pins are not the same orientation. The manual didn't differentiate this which led to confusion for me making an adaptor cable as has my previous post.

Phil  

I do not recall the TPS, wiring, orientation, or wire colors changing over the V11 range.

Is that N/Vi (black/violet) positive and Vi (violet) negative valid for the later V11 (LongFrames) as well?