V11 surging and pinging related?

[Tomchri]

I made a tool to get the clearance correct , easyly made in an afternoon.  I didn't want to put anything inside the engine. Picture here somewhere, may be june 21.

Cheers Tom.

[audiomick]

1 hour ago, Tomchri said:

I made a tool to get the clearance correct , easyly made in an afternoon.  I didn't want to put anything inside the engine. Picture here somewhere, may be june 21.

That's this again, isn't it?

 

[Doansci]

Re-adjusting the TPS solved the problem.  Unfortunately my initial electrical connections were not good enough to determine its pre-existing setting.  Establishing good connections showed that there is significant throttle shaft wear causing about 40mV variability in the TPS setting. Throttle shaft wear can be felt by letting the return spring hold the throttle shaft closed and wobbling the lower nut on the throttle shaft.  Both shafts are worn (24,500 miles) but the right side is worse maybe because the idle stop screw is on the right side.  I set the TPS so 150mV was the absolute minimum reading when pushing on the throttle shaft nut.  This usually resulted in 160-165mV when the throttle was closed by releasing the twist grip. Snapping the throttle shut or holding it closed with fingers resulted in greater variability in the reading but never less than 150mV.  BTW all TPS voltages were measured with the headlight turned off (disconnected) to minimize battery voltage drain.

Resetting the TPS eliminated the surging and pinging but it was not as smooth so I rebalanced throttles at 3000rpm and re-adjusted air bypass screws for idle.  The right side air bypass screw is turned in more than the left probably due to the throttle shaft being worn more on the right. 

We then went on a 1000 mile ride in temps up to 100F and 0-5600' elevation and the bike ran very well - smooth without surging or pinging.  40-42 mpg. The only complaint is the throttle transition from off to on or on to off is too abrupt, probably due to throttle shaft wear.

Are any throttle shaft repair kits available for these throttle bodies? 

Thanks for your help.

[docc]

1 hour ago, Doansci said:

Re-adjusting the TPS solved the problem.  Unfortunately my initial electrical connections were not good enough to determine its pre-existing setting.  Establishing good connections showed that there is significant throttle shaft wear causing about 40mV variability in the TPS setting. Throttle shaft wear can be felt by letting the return spring hold the throttle shaft closed and wobbling the lower nut on the throttle shaft.  Both shafts are worn (24,500 miles) but the right side is worse maybe because the idle stop screw is on the right side.  I set the TPS so 150mV was the absolute minimum reading when pushing on the throttle shaft nut.  This usually resulted in 160-165mV when the throttle was closed by releasing the twist grip. Snapping the throttle shut or holding it closed with fingers resulted in greater variability in the reading but never less than 150mV.  BTW all TPS voltages were measured with the headlight turned off (disconnected) to minimize battery voltage drain.

Resetting the TPS eliminated the surging and pinging but it was not as smooth so I rebalanced throttles at 3000rpm and re-adjusted air bypass screws for idle.  The right side air bypass screw is turned in more than the left probably due to the throttle shaft being worn more on the right. 

We then went on a 1000 mile ride in temps up to 100F and 0-5600' elevation and the bike ran very well - smooth without surging or pinging.  40-42 mpg. The only complaint is the throttle transition from off to on or on to off is too abrupt, probably due to throttle shaft wear.

Are any throttle shaft repair kits available for these throttle bodies? 

Thanks for your help.

Good news on the TPS solution and tune-up!

No kit, but @Lucky Phil's excellent tutorial:

 

[Lucky Phil]

5 hours ago, docc said:

Good news on the TPS solution and tune-up!

No kit, but @Lucky Phil's excellent tutorial:

 

Looks like there is a better shaft seal alternative out there docc than the Yamaha seals. Viton. Not cheap but CA cycleworks sell quality stuff.

https://ca-cycleworks.com/t-seal.html

Phil

[audiomick]

6 hours ago, Doansci said:

 The only complaint is the throttle transition from off to on or on to off is too abrupt, probably due to throttle shaft wear.

Have you got Guzzidiag? Connect it up, and have a look at the CO trim. I've read about some rather extreme settings. I was able to watch a couple of experts set up a V11. They started with a CO trim of -10, and tried out steps of plus and minus 10 to get the best result. The test was how the motor responded to throttle from idle, i.e. exactly the range that you are talking about. Give it a try, it might help.

[Doansci]

Thank you Docc and Phil!  Excellent write-up Phil.

No Guzzidiag (yet), need to fix the wear first.

[docc]

My throttle body shafts should probably be seen to, as well.

Yet, addressing your CO Fuel Trim with GuzziDiag is most recommended as a "what's next most."

Especially if it is found deep into the double negative range. I have seen this value as far off as negative 75.  My sport was negative 27 from the factory. Nothing I did to address the running issues was effective until the CO Fuel Trim was addressed.

[Lucky Phil]

3 hours ago, Doansci said:

Thank you Docc and Phil!  Excellent write-up Phil.

No Guzzidiag (yet), need to fix the wear first.

AS you can see it's not that hard and the parts are available from other sources.

Phil