gasket for the timing sensor

[audiomick]

Having bought a new timing sensor, and read the comment from @guzzler that the clearance from the timing sensor to whatever it looks at is critical, I had a look at the seals that are in there. There is an o-ring and a gasket, apparently. Going by the diagrammes here, there are 7 different gaskets in various thicknesses available. Part no. 17.

https://wendelmotorraeder.de/elektrik-zuendung-v11-02-le-mansskura-ex-30_3006_300602_30060203_3006020310_300602031032.html

I take it that the various gaskets thicknesses have to do with the clearance. Is that the case, how does one measure the clearance, and what is the prescribed clearance? (No, I haven't looked in the workshop manual for a value yet. Maybe someone can save me the trouble... )

 

 

Edited July 26 by audiomick

[gstallons]

I'll have to think about it . Maybe somebody else will chime in 'til then .

[Lucky Phil]

38 minutes ago, audiomick said:

Having bought a new timing sensor, and read the comment from @guzzler that the clearance from the timing sensor to whatever it looks at is critical, I had a look at the seals that are in there. There is an o-ring and a gasket, apparently. Going by the diagrammes here, there are 7 different gaskets in various thicknesses available. Part no. 17.

https://wendelmotorraeder.de/elektrik-zuendung-v11-02-le-mansskura-ex-30_3006_300602_30060203_3006020310_300602031032.html

I take it that the various gaskets thicknesses have to do with the clearance. Is that the case, how does one measure the clearance, and what is the prescribed clearance? (No, I haven't looked in the workshop manual for a value yet. Maybe someone can save me the trouble... )

 

 

There are various thickness shims Mick not gaskets. The oil seal is an oring and is almost useless on it's own and a gasket sealer is required as well on install. The actual sealing design is flawed in my opinion. How to measure? With a depth gauge and a pair of vernier callipers and a bit of math. You can of course just put a blob of plasticene on the end of the pickup with some grease on it and no shims and stick it in and remove then measure the plasticene thickness and calculate the shims you need. Thats works as well. Someone years ago made quite a neat bespoke tool to measure the depth but it's so rarely required I just use the old school methodology. I've pulled apart engines where the sensor was contacting the wheel and it still ran ok. Okish maybe.

Phil  

Edited July 26 by Lucky Phil

[gstallons]

audiomick , do you have vernier calipers or access to this plasticene Phil talked about? You should be able to get it at Hobby Lobby or some place similar .

 And AMEN to a sealant upon final assy. 

[audiomick]

Thanks Phil.

I've had a look in the workshop manual in the meantime. The gap should be, I quote

Quote

Fit adjusting shims to obtain an
air gap of 0.7÷0.9

presumably in millimetre.

I don't actually know for sure that my sensor is bad. I bought a new one on spec, because several reliable sources have informed me that the sensor shits itself as a matter of course after a while. The visual indicator is allegedly that the sensor swells in the middle.

I'm currently considering all possibilties as to why mine has the coughing and spluttering at constant throttle thing in rather exreme form. "About 2,800 r.p.m." seems to be the common thing. Mine does it, when warm, anywhere between 2,000 and just over 3,000 r.p.m. . I'd really like to know why, and get it sorted.

Edited July 26 by audiomick

[audiomick]

4 minutes ago, gstallons said:

audiomick , do you have vernier calipers or access to this plasticene Phil talked about?

I've got feeler gauges. I've been informed via PM that one can use those to measure the gap when the timing chest cover is off. That is probably what I'll do. I've got a gasket for that on the shelf.

[80CX100]

41 minutes ago, audiomick said:

I don't actually know for sure that my sensor is bad.

I'm currently considering all possibilties as to why mine has the coughing and spluttering at constant throttle thing in rather exreme form. "About 2,800 r.p.m. seems to be the common thing. Mine does it, when warm, anywhere between 2,000 and just over 3,000 r.p.m. . I'd really like to know why, and get it sorted.

I don't recall the fine details, but I suspect you may be trying to fix something that ain't broke. 

Each of my guzzis has a sweet spot; on the CalVin it's 3k rpm,,, on the Griso it's 4k rpm,,, on the V11 Lemans it's 5k rpm.

Imho;the V11 race track bred heritage,bigger valve engine & whatever cam & mapping magic,etc, results in a bike that likes to be ridden fast.

Many of us chuckled to ourselves a while back,when someone here posted about doing the ton. while taking a parts bike for a little test ride;

If you're confident on the decent tune up,main electrical contacts,plumbing etc; you may want to try an Italian tune up,just for shits & giggles.

Someday when you have head space & lot's of time & hopefully little traffic on your favorite back road,forget about the sputter between 2-3k,because you'll be throttling right through that & spending most of the time,in the 4-5k rpm range.

Try riding a gear or 2 lower than you normally would to keep the revs up & the V11 in it's sweet spot.  

I predict your bike will respond positively.

fwiw idk

[guzzler]

2 hours ago, audiomick said:

Thanks Phil.

I've had a look in the workshop manual in the meantime. The gap should be, I quote

presumably in millimetre.

I don't actually know for sure that my sensor is bad. I bought a new one on spec, because several reliable sources have informed me that the sensor shits itself as a matter of course after a while. The visual indicator is allegedly that the sensor swells in the middle.

I'm currently considering all possibilties as to why mine has the coughing and spluttering at constant throttle thing in rather exreme form. "About 2,800 r.p.m." seems to be the common thing. Mine does it, when warm, anywhere between 2,000 and just over 3,000 r.p.m. . I'd really like to know why, and get it sorted.

G'day mate

Yep it is in millimetres...

Sorry was going from memory 0.6 or 0.7mm but did check my receipts before confirming it was set to 0.7mm....

As mentioned, mine was at 1.4 mm and way out of spec but I also had a few other issues at the time.

That bloody stumble/splutter used to shit me in the early days and damn glad to see the arse end of it!

Cheers  

[gstallons]

I am thinking there is an improved timing cover gasket available too. Please use a good gasket sealant (Hylomar) when you button everything up and make sure you use a Roper tray on the bottom end .

 BTW , while you are waiting , start measuring the thickness of things . Anti-freeze jugs , Rubber-Maid products , etc. to get you a non-magnetic feeler gauge !

Edited July 27 by gstallons
more info

[Lucky Phil]

1 hour ago, gstallons said:

I am thinking there is an improved timing cover gasket available too. Please use a good gasket sealant (Hylomar) when you button everything up and make sure you use a Roper tray on the bottom end .

 BTW , while you are waiting , start measuring the thickness of things . Anti-freeze jugs , Rubber-Maid products , etc. to get you a non-magnetic feeler gauge !

There is but don't go anywhere near it with gasket sealer as it will inhibit the pressure sensitive sealant on the gasket doing it's job.

https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=170_174&products_id=5044

 

OR Mick you could by a USED front cover gasket from a local ebay retailer in Germany. Remarkable value, can't go wrong there mate.

 https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/176430408521?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20211130125621%26meid%3D6565c1fed2f64fce8f2954b20c0e8b4f%26pid%3D101465%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D386889832760%26itm%3D176430408521%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D3650466&_trksid=p3650466.c101465.m3507

 

Phil

Edited July 27 by Lucky Phil

[gstallons]

I will go along w/the M/G Cycle gasket sans sealer .  AFA the used gasket , hmmmm. When my starter went 3k rpm for 10 mins on two separate occasions , I looked at used ones on eBay and they were asking above retail ...... Yeow. It's not the fool that asks , it's the fool that gives.

[Tomchri]

23 hours ago, audiomick said:

Having bought a new timing sensor, and read the comment from @guzzler that the clearance from the timing sensor to whatever it looks at is critical, I had a look at the seals that are in there. There is an o-ring and a gasket, apparently. Going by the diagrammes here, there are 7 different gaskets in various thicknesses available. Part no. 17.

https://wendelmotorraeder.de/elektrik-zuendung-v11-02-le-mansskura-ex-30_3006_300602_30060203_3006020310_300602031032.html

I take it that the various gaskets thicknesses have to do with the clearance. Is that the case, how does one measure the clearance, and what is the prescribed clearance? (No, I haven't looked in the workshop manual for a value yet. Maybe someone can save me the trouble... )

 

 

Look at my post may 29  2021, how easy the distance can be measured. Me and interweb.

Cheers Tom.

[audiomick]

57 minutes ago, Tomchri said:

...my post may 29  2021, how easy the distance can be measured. ..

That would be this, I gather

 

Thanks, that gives me ideas.

 

Edited July 27 by audiomick

[audiomick]

23 hours ago, 80CX100 said:

Try riding a gear or 2 lower than you normally would to keep the revs up & the V11 in it's sweet spot. 

I hear what you are saying, and agree. Having said that, I'm not prone to lugging a motor, neither generally speaking, nor specifically a Guzzi motor. My first Guzzi was (and I still have it) the V35 Imola. If you don't give the 350 motor a caning, nothing happens. And it begs you consantly to give it the berries. The third Guzzi is a Breva 750, also a small block, and also more than willing to be flogged.

That brings us to the V11: it is obvious that the motor is set up to be revved out, and that is one of the reasons I love it. Even so, the way mine spits and farts and carries on can't be normal, I reckon. I'll keep looking, but when, as you put it, I am certain that everything is right and it still misbehaves at lower revs, then I'll take your advice and ride around it.

Edited July 28 by audiomick

[80CX100]

3 hours ago, audiomick said:

Even so, the way mine spits and farts and carries on can't be normal,.

Other than a brief fit of tank suck issue,my V11 has always run strong and smooth,even in the lower 2-3k range;but the breathing definitely opens up at higher rpms.

There's not much to chasing & verifying the fuel plumbing & electricals on the V11s;

I recently got schooled big time,when I found a spark plug cap on my Griso that "looked" perfect on the exterior,but was completely fried on the inside.

I'm sure you'll figure out what the gremlin is.