gthyni Posted June 28, 2004 Posted June 28, 2004 I certainly did not mean to imply that Gary could dial-in a fork. My statement about "knowing what..." was a general statement meaning just what it say, no cheap shots at anyone intended! Some of us in this international forum do not have english as our first language. Sometimes it may make thing we write a bit crude, but the native speakers have to take a forgiving attitude otherwise it all goes pear-shaped. People may also have different opinions and priorities without anyone taking it as personal insult. Gary take it easy, noone hates you for prefering staying with Marzocchi/Sachs parts. I admit being a bit of a poser (but w/o Öhlins parts, at least yet), I sure Paul, Jean Marc and Antonio among other will too if pressured Being aggressive about poser attitude in a forum dedicated to an italian sport motorcycle might be a little bit out of place IMHO.
Guest Gary Cheek Posted June 28, 2004 Posted June 28, 2004 The "know what you are doing remark was a general comment as well . I don't say I PREFER Marzocchi?Sachs ,only that the Ohlins are not mandatory for real fun on the Guzzi . That IS the point . And I'll bet you ARE having fun with your V11 . Maybe I just envy the folks who have a face nice enough to pose with ! At my age the bike ,the rider and the road are the main elements ! I'm glad that at 54 years I can still put my feet on high pegs and crank the body over to the clip ons . The Guzzis are still a revealation for me . Not the best at any single thing except being good all around riding machines . It,s all about compromises and doing the best WITH WHATEVER YOU HAVE.
gthyni Posted June 28, 2004 Posted June 28, 2004 Maybe I just envy the folks who have a face nice enough to pose with ! Gary, there is a reason at least I do my best poses with fullface helmets not much to envy
Guest GGuzzi Posted June 28, 2004 Posted June 28, 2004 Some folks will say the Ohlins is set up for a 170 pound rider and may be sprung too light for me . If anything it is too STIFF ! .... this is actually a classic sign of being undersprung, especially if one has cranked up the preload or compression damping to counteract the undersprung shock/forks Also, undersprung forks tend to pack down. I'd be very interested to hear how your impression of the 2002 versus 2001 handling changes once the Scura suspension is setup for your weight. al P.S. Just to be clear for those reading this thread, all 2002+ V11 Sport models such as the LeMans, Sport, Naked, Scura, etc.. have the slightly longer wheelbase. It's not just the LeMans, although interestingly that might have been a good marketing move to differentiate the LeMans from the Sport/Naked had they only applied the longer frame to the LeMans. Ah well.... Al, I have a 2003 Rosso corso . I am 155-160 and have the Olins factory setting , meaning I haven't re-set it. I am a bit ignorant when it comes to suspension and althought i realize I have a nice package I am not sure what to look for in terms of handling and fine tuning. how about a quick tutorial. The bike seems to ride beautifully, an occasional tailwiggle, ( could be the stock tires which I do not like, 020, no high speed problems I could report, should I leave well enough alone.
Baldini Posted June 28, 2004 Posted June 28, 2004 a rage blinded OHLEENS fanatic ...a waste of money especially if ,like some others it takes you 18 months to dial them in . who dat den... ???? Gary, which do you think works better - Marzocchi/Sachs or Ohlins?
al_roethlisberger Posted June 29, 2004 Posted June 29, 2004 I have a 2003 Rosso corso . I am 155-160 and have the Olins factory setting , meaning I haven't re-set it. I am a bit ignorant when it comes to suspension and althought i realize I have a nice package I am not sure what to look for in terms of handling and fine tuning. how about a quick tutorial. The bike seems to ride beautifully, an occasional tailwiggle, ( could be the stock tires which I do not like, 020, no high speed problems I could report, should I leave well enough alone. Heya, hope the following helps..... Here are some threads on the subject: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...=3039&hl=ohlins http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...=2520&hl=ohlins http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...=2238&hl=ohlins As far as general suspension setup: http://www.v11lemans.com/forums/index.php?...4&hl=suspension ...and specifically, a guide: http://www.sportrider.com/tech/suspension/
al_roethlisberger Posted June 29, 2004 Posted June 29, 2004 Al ,. 1 . I am NOT having ANY problems setting up the friggin OHLEENS AGAIN: I am NOT having ANY problems setting up the friggin OHLEENS I have the preload BACKED OFF to get the proper sag , and the damping is backed off as well . It is WORKING well . "STIFF" is not a ride description but a reference to the backed off-to achieve sag/ride settings . NO PROBLEM ! Well Gary, I'm honestly sorry you seem so frustrated with this topic, but I really don't see that the folks here have meant to argue with you, nor present the Ohlins as you describe.... as elitist. I certainly didn't suggest that you were somehow inept at adjusting the suspension, nor did I find that others did. Perhaps as Baldini suggests, it was just a misunderstanding due to lexicon/semantics I was responding to the common 'undersprung " utterance that is too often woven in with all the other Ohlins trueisms Yes we DO agree . The FRUSTRATION comes from the condecension that flows every time it is mentioned that the OHLINS are not an absolute prerequisite for an enjoyable machine . I have BOTH and YES the OHLINS are nice pieces BUT they MAY not justify the added cost . (for some people ) And if the elitists keep spouting "factory tech set up" or "you have to know what you are doing "(like THEY do ?) , "trash the factory springs" Etc, they are only reinforcing that point . Thank you . But again, WRT saying suspension is "undersprung"... this is not specific to the Ohlins. Again, many bikes come setup for the median weight the factory thinks the average buyer/rider will be. However, for many of us, especially those over 35(which is many a Guzzi owner ) ... that weight is often too heavy for the stock springs, whether Marz or Ohlins. And this is not uncommon on any make of bike when the buyer isn't a young, or lightweight, rider. It's just part of dialing in a bike to fit one's personal needs. But also, again, I don't think anyone here has espoused or presented any "elitist" statements about Ohlins, or "factory tech setup", etc... at least in this thread. I suppose it's possible that someone on the forum may have suggested taking it to a suspension shop as an option, but not as a requirement .... although I don't recall it being pushed So although you may be frustrated, I think you are beating a dead horse to some degree, as no one here is arguing with you For example, to sum up: I really don't think anyone here has said Ohlins is a must to have a Guzzi worth riding, and the Marz/Sachs are junk For what is charged they should be very close in tune and should not require huge additional costs , IF they are to be COST EFFECTIVE for MOST people . It is nice that Guzzi makes them available to people willing to pay the cost for the added performance and/or poser power . ...and yes, agreed, it would be nice if every manufacturer offered the option of ordering(or just having setup at purchase) a bike with the appropriate spring rates front/rear for the prospective buyer's weight. But none do to my knowledge, unless one buys it as an option from the shop that is. And although we are talking about Ohlins versus the Marz/Sachs here, I think it's important to stress again, that I've mentioned several times that the Marz/Sachs is probably just fine for many people that happen to be the correct weight for the stock springs, or if one simply spends a couple hundred $$ for new springs. Either way, the rider will find the ride much more satisfying. So "huge additional costs" are not really required for just a set of springs, and ergo I think Ohlins aren't de facto required either Can one ride a bike with springs mismatched to their wieight? Sure. I did for years. But is it optimal, or even just ideal? No. According to the 'experts'(and I don't mean poseurs ) suspension "upgrades" or at the least "tuning" is some of the best money spent to improve the performance of any bike.... and again, that doesn't necessarily mean changing out the entire kit, just tuning the parts as needed. That being said, if just a couple/three hundred $$ in springs will make a bike's suspension ideal, as opposed to under(or even over) sprung, I don't see the problem. But yes, it would be nice if a bike from off the showroom floor were not just setup properly for the rider as part of the prep, but also sprung, etc... appropriately for one's riding weight and style. But they don't, and alas we can only dream, or in my case, lose 50lbs al
Guest Gary Cheek Posted June 29, 2004 Posted June 29, 2004 Al , like you said WE AGREE . Don't know where you got the impression that this is the only place Guzzi are discussed but the comments are from the typical responses in most venues . The only point I was making was that the Marz/Sachs stuff is good for most apps. The other side was the rush ,as evidenced here from the Ohlinisti to counter that attitude with the standard issues already discussed . Al Quote : "I certainly didn't suggest that you were somehow inept at adjusting the suspension, nor did I find that others did. " Thanks for the ruling Your Honor . I 'm sure the inferences were overtly present . Thanks for repeating your theory on spring rates till I "got it" . If only you had been there for me 30 yrars ago when I first became involved . Performance , quality versatility, support . Ohlins are a good bet Value , The Marzocchi/ Sachs is a great deal . Mercedes or Lexus , which is best ? I'll take a Lexus even at the same price ! Lieca or Nikon ? I buy Lieca others save $$ and go for the Nikon . Patek Phillipe or Rolex ? Can't afford either I use Timex .
droydx Posted June 29, 2004 Posted June 29, 2004 I can say with great sureity that I am very glad that I have the Ohlins suspension on my '03 Rosso Corsa. For me, it was a selling point....."this is the Guzzi I want". As a last year model, the bike was near the cost of a brand new one. The Marzocchi/Sachs combination is a good one, but if you could have the Ohlins at the same price would you choose that? It was an easy decision, and I'm very happy with the suspension. I may be on the heavy side of the spring at about 190 lbs, but so far I have not experienced any problems and I have not adjusted my preload, as the sag seems within range. The only thing I have noticed is a mid turn/exit "squirm" which I think is the Bridgestone stock tires and not attributable to the "OHLEENS"
al_roethlisberger Posted June 29, 2004 Posted June 29, 2004 Al , like you said WE AGREE . Don't know where you got the impression that this is the only place Guzzi are discussed but the comments are from the typical responses in most venues . No worries Gary ..... I was just going by what was said here since this is the thread it was being discussed al
Guest Gary Cheek Posted June 29, 2004 Posted June 29, 2004 Droydx , I am in a similar situation ,regarding the Ohlins setup . The factory stuff ,contrary to expert "direction" was right in the ball park . Certainly NOT undersprung for my 190 lb mass. I got a real deal on my Scura . It came with a spun bearing on the #2 rod . Before I got around to repairing that engine the 2001 V11 turned up on Ebay for $3500 . The V11 was a flood victim . I had intended to use the V11 as a donor bike to get the Scura up ,then part out or shelve the rest. As it turned out ,the V11 only required a few minor parts some clean up and a fuse to get it running . It took me about another month to get the Scura back to life . They are BOTH fine bikes . If I were selling one or the other ,it would take more money to buy the V11 than the Scura ! As a pure fun rider I like the V11 . When Rich Maund compared the bikes (old to new ) last year he pretty much reached the same conclusion . I am really surprised to find myself agreeing now that I have experienced both ,first hand . Just being honest . Actually $5500 would probably take the Scura . It would take a lot more to get that Plain Jane $3500 V11 ! I like that bike And yes , the OHLEEEEENS are included with the dark one ! I would actually prefer to put the engine and trans from the Scura into the V11 chassis and off the remainder. The Scura runs and SHIFTS flawlessly . The V11 steers more closely to my liiking and needs . The ridiculous (too BIG) rear tire (on the Scura) could be a major factor and a possible NEW THREAD subject !
Mike Stewart Posted June 29, 2004 Posted June 29, 2004 I have the opposite feeling that Gary Cheek has. I have a 2000 V11Sport and an 03 Rosso Corsa and all I can say is I wish my 2000 Sport handled like my 03 Rosso. Once you get the right tires (Metzeler Sportec, Pirelli Diablo Corsa) on the 02 and newer bikes, the steering is excellent in my opinion. High speed sweepers (100+ Mph) are not a problem with the Rosso. Now the same turns with my 00 Sport with the Ohlins forks and Penske rear shock, I have to be very calm for the bike to track straight. Any road irregularitys and the bike feels really unstable. Loose/twitchy rear end. Yes, I really like to ride my 00 V11Sport (ride it everyday) but you need to know its short comings. On the 03 Rosso (with Ohlins front and rear), I have not found any short comings yet. I am planning to do a track day in September with Todd and Dp Safety school and you bet that I will be on the Rosso. Mike
docc Posted June 29, 2004 Posted June 29, 2004 Guzzi-Nashville hosted some demo rides at their open house last weekend. I mounted the Cafe Sport to taste the magic of the Gold Forks. I guess it would have been nice to spend the weekend on the thing really trouncing some nasty roads to see the magic. What was more impressive was the stabilty and tracking of the late model frame geometry and bigger rear tire/wheel. I was glad to get back on my twitchy, nervous early red-framed Sport. Of course, at 165 pounds ( but not 20 years old) the basic set-up is still out of reach of my novice capabilties.
Baldini Posted June 29, 2004 Posted June 29, 2004 I really don't see that the folks here have meant to argue with you... My only argument is with the arrogance implicit in any post that assumes a superior knowlege of another's needs no matter that the poster has no specific knowledge of that other(eg: If I want Ohlins forks I must be a poseur). Unless you know me you don't know what I do or what I need. Ride a V11 hard & it needs all the suspension, brakes & tyres it can get. Fat rear tyres? Gary, where were you when I needed you - Start a thread, but there'll be arguments! You'll be hard on that CAPS key AGAIN!!! Bike, road & rider - well I agree with that KB
Guest Gary Cheek Posted June 29, 2004 Posted June 29, 2004 Baldini, How ironic ,you calling someone arrogant ,presuming to know what someone else needs . Where in the world did I say what someone needed ? I merely suggested that Ohlins may not be a requirement to have fun on these bikes . I further pointed out the usual reponse to that utterance and you obediently,predictably chimed in and proved the point. I have questioned the return for money spent ,everyone wi weigh that for themselves . For that you jumped in telling me all the things you knew I was doing wrong . I didn't tell anyone what they didn't need anymore than you wee arrogantly saying they needed . I didn't say or imply they (Ohlins) were only for posing . I did say they have a very strong poser appeal . Don't twist the words. Did that hit too close to home ? Try not to over react to the caps . Us old folks don't always realize how sensitive mouse potatos are to such things . I'll try to respect your sensitivity .
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