V11 Ballabio 2004 - Weird electrical problem after storing bike 1 year

[gstallons]

7 hours ago, MotoKnee said:

As I am old, simple and half blind, I wanted a simple, easy to read start circuit diagram to load into my phone to refer to if stuck somewhere with no cell service. Might be helpful to others trying to remember how the circuit is laid out w/o a schematic in front of them. assuming it is drawn correctly etc.

 

It is a slick idea putting this on your phone ! 

 Did you make this or get it off a website ?

 BTW , hearing a relay click doesn't mean THE starter relay being activated , there are 5 relays total in that panel so anything is possible.

[gstallons]

According to this diagram , the start circuit consists of ign. switch , sidestand sw., start sw., clutch sw.,  starter relay then to the starter . Do try the jumper wire to the starter solenoid to make sure the starter is good before you start diagnosing the no-start.

 After you get the ign. sw. problem lined out and you are happy with it , go through this circuit and look for v at each part making sure you have + going in and going out. 

[vinguzzi]

You Guys are more than fantastic!!! 

Its clear that miss Guzzi is showing discontentment after 1 year of negligence in more than one way....

Plan of action: 

1. Load test battery / replace; If its good, I'll next test the starter (run a temporary wire from the spade connector on the solenoid and touch it on battery Positive); If the battery its bad: that would probably be mean we have a running engine with a fresh battery;

2. do the ignition cleaning - perhaps that will make the headlight turn off after shutting of ignition and will fix the neutral dash light all together. 

Hope the storage owner allows me to do some tinkering at his place – but what could be possibly more fulfilling than that!?

Wishing you a great day + THANKS!

Vins

[MotoKnee]

2 hours ago, gstallons said:

It is a slick idea putting this on your phone ! 

 Did you make this or get it off a website ?

 BTW , hearing a relay click doesn't mean THE starter relay being activated , there are 5 relays total in that panel so anything is possible.

I drew it up in Paint based off of Carl Allison schematic. It can be easily changed if anyone spots a mistake etc.

[gstallons]

Looks pretty good to me

[MotoKnee]

13 hours ago, gstallons said:

Looks pretty good to me

Thanks for checking, how about now? Added the remaining relays for a little more clarity.

 

[Lucky Phil]

2 hours ago, MotoKnee said:

Thanks for checking, how about now? Added the remaining relays for a little more clarity.

 

It's only applicable for the early bikes not the later ones that used the ignition switch to provide switching power to the start relay. The early bikes as shown the start relay always has direct switching power from fuse 4 but the later bikes it's switched through the ignition switch.

Phil

Edited August 28 by Lucky Phil

[MotoKnee]

37 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

It's only applicable for the early bikes not the later ones that used the ignition switch to provide switching power to the start relay. The early bikes as shown the start relay always has direct switching power from fuse 4 but the later bikes it's switched through the ignition switch.

Phil

I now see that change in another schematic, fuse 5 power goes to pin 30 of the headlight relay, start relay pin 30 from switched ignition. That change is on the 2002 models?

I was hoping to wait until winter maintenance to remove the tank for a wiring inspection (my sidestand switch has been removed, want a look at the jumper, also want to inspect regulator connections, bullet connectors) and a general see what's what. Don't want to miss prime riding weather due to cranking that sticky manual fuel shut off and creating a gas leak.

[Lucky Phil]

34 minutes ago, MotoKnee said:

I now see that change in another schematic, fuse 5 power goes to pin 30 of the headlight relay, start relay pin 30 from switched ignition. That change is on the 2002 models?

I was hoping to wait until winter maintenance to remove the tank for a wiring inspection (my sidestand switch has been removed, want a look at the jumper, also want to inspect regulator connections, bullet connectors) and a general see what's what. Don't want to miss prime riding weather due to cranking that sticky manual fuel shut off and creating a gas leak.

Not sure about the exact change over date but post 2001 I think. My images don't have the exact date ranges.

I came across a couple of new manual taps in the spares locker the other day and got them on the bench for when I return from holidays. Now that I have a mill I can do the valve bobbin slotting modification with greater accuracy and appearance. Won't work any better than the current mod but will look more professional if someone ever has it apart.

Phil

[vinguzzi]

So, the battery passed stress test gloriously: its fine and should make the bike start. 

Have not had the opportunity to visit the bike. The fact that in my bike (2004) uses the ignition switch to provide switching power to the start relay makes me hope that fixing/cleaning the ignition swicht might also solve the not crancing. Will surely also test the starter with a direct wire to battery. 

Vins

[gstallons]

According to the wiring diagrams , your ignition key and wiring diagram is exclusive to (it seems) your bike ! Everyone should consider looking at (reprinting) the diagram in the back of their manual and enlarging it to where you can make it out easily. 

[Pressureangle]

My ignition switch created a capacitor out of aged grease and debris, which *after some period of time* illuminated the dash and taillamp and drained the battery intermittently. Perhaps yours carries enough current to hold the headlight relay on. Consider cleaning it. 
 

 

Edited August 28 by Pressureangle

[vinguzzi]

Update of weirdness:

Went to the bike with the good battery. Went ahead with testing the starter: removed the plastic cover over the starter to access the connectors, to run a wire from the spade connector on the solenoid to battery Positive.

Access to the connectors was still limited, but I noticed a spade connector not fully engaged on the solenoid(?). It is a thin wire and appeared brown. Do you guys know if this is earth? It seems incredible thin.. A picture is attached. 

I seated the wire well and thought lets see…: hooked up the battery and… it started right away. Had been a full year, but really only 2 seconds of cranking. More amazing was that the head light (that used to stay on after switching of ignition) turned off normal. Also the neutral light functioned normal again.

Went for a drive and all was fine. One time it did not start (it primed, clutch switch reacted and neutral light worked), nothing. After 1 minutes it started right up again.

So… depending on what that wire is: could this cause the headlight staying on issue, neutral light not illuminating and non cranking  - in your opinion?

Cheers from a still somewhat amazed but happy guzzi rider

Vins

Edited September 4 by vinguzzi

[Tomchri]

Startus interruptus, yes a better wire and an extra good relay is the cure. I used a 70amp relay, yes overkill, but.   It's all here on the forum.

Cheers Tom.

[po18guy]

Well, you have given me something to check, as I had a no-crank session with my '04 Ballabio. I can tell you that it is no fun bump-starting a V11.