Some questions

[Klaus756]

Hello all. I have a question regarding the driveshaft at the transmission output shaft. My 2000 V11 sport has a splined end on the driveshaft that uses a pinch bolt to tighten in onto the output. There is a U joint knuckle that goes onto the rest of the driveshaft. That has a splined end that I am guessing goes into the rear drive. I only have the engine and transmission and some other parts from the wrecked bike I bought. I do have the driveshaft. Finding a splined shaft that fits the output is my question. Does anybody know if the splined end from a 1200 would fit the output shaft? That one doesn't have the pinch bolt, but pictures I have seen look like the splined end might be the same. Please understand, this build isn't a motorcycle but a reverse trike instead. The rear drive I will be going into is from a Honda Goldwing. I don't have a Guzzi rear drive or swingarm.

 

[Klaus756]

I am still at the point where things can be changed in my trike build. As it stands, I had planned on a more traditional style with the engine up front, just behind the front suspension. My second option would be to place the engine behind the driver and passenger (side by side) closer to the rear drive. I figure the cooling air supply wouldn't be as easy as with the front engine design, but with fans and venting, in and out, it should be doable. 

[Klaus756]

As an add on to the first two posts. In the front engine design. the input and output  shafts will not line up. If I went with a monoposto design the prop shaft wouldn't be a big problem because there is only the rider to consider. In a side by side design, the driveshaft is a problem. Unless you offset the drives. By this, my plan, is to attach a chain drive and bearing assembly to the output shaft of the Guzzi transmission. Drop the chain down to a propshaft and go back the rear drive where the same type chain would go up to the rear drive. If I can I am thinking of using an electric motor driven reverse, also driving the rear drive. This would put the propshaft under the floor and between the frame rails. I have my doubts about the chain and sprockets/bearing being able to withstand the Guzzi power output. Another thought has been to adapt the guzzi engine to a VW IRS transaxle mounted in a front drive subframe and go with front wheel drive. I am attempting this build using as many parts that I already have. Currently it has an MGB front suspension.

[gstallons]

Definitely speaking for myself :

 AFA the driveshaft integration , everything looks the same until you lay things down next to each other. 

 Reverse trike . 2 wheels in front & ! in the rear ?

Doing a trike / you need to discuss this with someone has done this before . I don't know anyone on this forum that has done this before , they will have to come forward and offer help or advice . There is a place nearby in Murray ,Ky...www.hannigantrikes.com and they started out w/BMW trike conversions and now will do (most) all conversions. You can see what they are up to.  

[docc]

Hi, @Klaus756!

    Thanks for asking us to throw in on your project! We do have another member here with something similar. It will take me some time, but I will look for his profile, posts, and pictures.

   As far the driveshaft, your description sounds like you only got the front of the 2-peice driveshaft. It is very common for "breakers" to leave the back "half" on the reardrive, shown on this center reardrive . . .

[docc]

Here is @kool keef's trike. He has not visited with us since 2021 . . .

 

[audiomick]

@Klaus756 do some research into how the Lomax was built

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lomax_(kit_car)

It was based on the Citroen 2CV, front wheel drive, and used the 2CV motor, gearbox and front axles. There are a number of them getting around with Guzzi motors in them, so it is apparently possible to fit the Guzzi motor to the Citroen gearbox somehow.

 

That might be a blind alley for your purposes, but it might be  new direction of thought.

PS: the "reverse trike" was popular for a while in the UK because, I gather, of a loophole in the Road Tax laws.

[Klaus756]

Thank you all for you're replies. Yes, it is 2 front 1 rear. Not my first trike build, just first using Guzzi parts. My last bike was a Harley Davidson Road Glide. I took it on a trade, only to find my hips just won't work that well anymore. When I got it, it had a trike kit on it. That was not what attracted me to it. I had a '69 Jeep CJ5. It got time to sell it, but I thought it would be easier to try to sell a bike rather than the restored Jeep. I got the bike and $4000 for the jeep (it was a very nice Jeep). Coming up with the 2CV gearbox would be a challenge in itself. Yes, about the driveshaft parts. I did only get the front of the shaft. I am curious about the splined connection and weather the 1200 Norge splined end might fit my 2000 V11. I tried a splined coupler from another Guzzi only to find it was too big around. The different shafts caught me by surprise as there are many. I have found the splined end from a LeMans is close. My 2000 has the short shaft (no pun intended). Since I don't have any of the rear drive from the Guzzi, None of those parts will work for me. When my bike was wrecked the main spline was compressed near the steering head. The impact also cracked the lower mount on the clutch cover as well as some cracks to the cover itself. Those look like a repair can be done. The engine doesn't show any damage. I was told it had just over 5000 miles on it. It has sat in a storage container for awhile, when the owner healed up, we was going to go the Cafe route. I think that once he got it apart he had trouble finding a replacement spine, and wasn't inclined to build a whole new frame or try to adapt the engine to another frame. Also too, I think he found the clutch cover damage and figured there was probably more broken up. The parts sat in another storage container until I bought them last year. after some looking it appears that the V11 sport and LeMans from about 1998-2002 are close in usage. Am I correct or completely wrong? Thanks for the help with the questions. 

[Klaus756]

The pictured RT is what has drawn me in this direction. It is a Morgan style trike (most are). Another option in my build would be to go rear engined. At the point I am now going either way is possible without a lot of expensive changes.

[Lucky Phil]

Can you really call these a "trike" Personally I consider them more a 3 wheeled car. A trike is something that was 2 wheels at the back and one at the front and originally based on a motorcycle or something with a motorcycle front end/forks. I know they morphed a bit from there with VW powered "things" being popular but the Morgan style seems as I said more a 3 wheeled car not a "trike".

Phil  

[audiomick]

15 hours ago, Klaus756 said:

.... after some looking it appears that the V11 sport and LeMans from about 1998-2002 are close in usage. Am I correct or completely wrong?

If you mean a V11 Le Mans from the same period, you are correct in your assumption. The drive-trains are, as far as I know, identical.

If you want to compare part numbers, there are parts lists available here. You need to scroll down a bit to get to the V11 section. The list is in French, but it isn't hard to figure out what is meant.

https://guzzitek.org/f/parts_list_f.htm#gb

PS: there are workshop manuals elsewhere on  the same site, if that is of any interest to you.

Edited September 20 by audiomick

[Klaus756]

Lucky Phil. I get what you mean. Most people have trouble with it being a "trike" because it has a steeringwheel and not bars. The government make the distinction by saying any vehicle with less than 4 wheels is a motorcycle. That idea, makes licensing and registering a "trike" much easier than if it were a car. No where near the hoops to jump through. Being a reverse trike over a conventional trike translates to it handles better. Partly because it sits lower to the ground and has a low center of gravity. Yes, they can be rolled over. Audiomick, thank you for affirming my guess, and for the information about the list. I have an online manual that seems to be comprehensive. My first trike build used VW components, but not the engine. It was an RT and not conventional. The second build used a tube frame, seat insert, from a Meyers Tow'd clone and a Honda Goldwing for power. In between there were other builds and styles but always RT.

[Klaus756]

For me I have had to build tooling as well as the trike itself. I needed a keyway cut in a hardened transmission shaft for part of the drive. This is where I am right now. The front portion uses V11 front half driveshaft parts. The back half of the drive is where I need the first keyway cut. My two local machine shops have both folded so I am trying to go it alone. I am using a cross slide milling fixture I am trying to use on my lathe. I don't have a milling machine. It has worked, sort of, but still has more to go. To that end I made a new attaching point for the lathe's cross slide. The old one allowed too much side to side movement. Still, under certain conditions, it will kick the head out of line. I am now trying to use the tail stock as a stabilizer. It will use a dead center with a crossbar welded to it. The crossbar will have two struts going to the cross slide mount to hold it so it won't "buck". Live and learn I guess. To think this build it thing started over 55 years ago with the build of a Monoque chassis for an endurance racing motorcycle to prove a point about that type of build. Stubborn much?

[Lucky Phil]

1 hour ago, Klaus756 said:

Lucky Phil. I get what you mean. Most people have trouble with it being a "trike" because it has a steeringwheel and not bars. The government make the distinction by saying any vehicle with less than 4 wheels is a motorcycle. That idea, makes licensing and registering a "trike" much easier than if it were a car. No where near the hoops to jump through. Being a reverse trike over a conventional trike translates to it handles better. Partly because it sits lower to the ground and has a low center of gravity. Yes, they can be rolled over. Audiomick, thank you for affirming my guess, and for the information about the list. I have an online manual that seems to be comprehensive. My first trike build used VW components, but not the engine. It was an RT and not conventional. The second build used a tube frame, seat insert, from a Meyers Tow'd clone and a Honda Goldwing for power. In between there were other builds and styles but always RT.

I never even thought about the handlebar V steering wheel aspect of the trike V 3 wheeled car.

Phil