Guzzi V11 Le Mans 2000...Starting issues

[p6x]

12 hours ago, audiomick said:

are generally more interested in selling new vehicles than keeping old ones running. Jus' sayin'...

Hence, programmed obsolescence... fortunately, there is a law in France to attemtp to prevent it. Especially with household appliances which are conceived in a way they can't be repaired as it used to be possible before.

[gstallons]

@David Sandbrook

David S , did you get your bike repaired / running correctly ?

[David Sandbrook]

HI gstallons...No, not yet. I am having a talk to a service shop tomorrow and have translated many of these posts to Japanese to give the shop a little info in the hope they too can help. 

Cheers,

David 

[gstallons]

Good , these require steps in diagnosing/repairing and if the tech speaks the English language they can join the forum and get involved with asking questions . 

[p6x]

10 hours ago, David Sandbrook said:

HI gstallons...No, not yet. I am having a talk to a service shop tomorrow and have translated many of these posts to Japanese to give the shop a little info in the hope they too can help. 

Cheers,

David 

I don't know which part of Japan you are living, you should maybe put the name of the city in your profile card, but I don't know if you ever saw 46works YouTube videos, this guy is some kind of wizard for preparing Guzzis and BMWs.

I don't think he would be interested in working on your bike, he is more like a custom prep, but giving him a call may be worth your while.

https://46works.net/

[stewgnu]

could the solder be failing at the alternator wires?  Happened to me recently and left me stranded.

Then one of the little tab/posts snapped off of course when i looked at it.  Always get more jobs than expected when i fix my guzzi- it’s great value

[Gmc28]

Lots of good info offered.  surely seems like the early input from audiomick on your charging system would be a smoking gun.  but exactly what/where in the system you have failure would be the question.  assuming you love your V11 and plan to keep it, and/or just want to cover your bases as you tick off possible causes for this current problem, just going through the charging system from end to end isn’t that painful of a process, and I’d say advisable for about any older italian.  As stewgnu noted, solder/connections on the front end, the wire and connectors back to the VR, the VR itself, and then the grounding connections, are all things that can cause headaches.  I’d say inlikely that the VR itself is failed, but could be, and even if not, on my “keepers” i just replace it anyway with a MOSFET unit, including of course the connectors with upgraded pieces (probably more important), check and/or replace original connectors in that run from the alternator, and really clean up and/or upgrade the main ground to frame.  Whack all those moles at once, and just remove all or most the hassles that can come from that bundle of electrics, and probably solve your actual problem as well. 

As chuck noted, a battery going to zero volts would normally be unlikely to want to come back to life, but hard to imagine that it actually went all the way to zero (though anywhere close to zero is usually pretty lethal to a batt).  if you’ve got it back to normal or near-normal voltage, then roll with it, but keep your eyes on it.   i’ve had lead-acids come back to life quite nicely, semi surprisingly, but my last Li-Ion to go down to under 2V was “killed deader than hell”.  damn shame, as that was a spendy one, on a Duc that had a mis-behaving relay and sat for a few months without “adult supervision” (Duc service bulletin came out for that known issue, but i hadn’t seen that till it was too late… sigh).  but you can check that battery health within reason.

[gstallons]

Do start your repairs after verifying a GOOD battery. 

[David Sandbrook]

On 11/6/2024 at 12:36 AM, Gmc28 said:

Lots of good info offered.  surely seems like the early input from audiomick on your charging system would be a smoking gun.  but exactly what/where in the system you have failure would be the question.  assuming you love your V11 and plan to keep it, and/or just want to cover your bases as you tick off possible causes for this current problem, just going through the charging system from end to end isn’t that painful of a process, and I’d say advisable for about any older italian.  As stewgnu noted, solder/connections on the front end, the wire and connectors back to the VR, the VR itself, and then the grounding connections, are all things that can cause headaches.  I’d say inlikely that the VR itself is failed, but could be, and even if not, on my “keepers” i just replace it anyway with a MOSFET unit, including of course the connectors with upgraded pieces (probably more important), check and/or replace original connectors in that run from the alternator, and really clean up and/or upgrade the main ground to frame.  Whack all those moles at once, and just remove all or most the hassles that can come from that bundle of electrics, and probably solve your actual problem as well. 

As chuck noted, a battery going to zero volts would normally be unlikely to want to come back to life, but hard to imagine that it actually went all the way to zero (though anywhere close to zero is usually pretty lethal to a batt).  if you’ve got it back to normal or near-normal voltage, then roll with it, but keep your eyes on it.   i’ve had lead-acids come back to life quite nicely, semi surprisingly, but my last Li-Ion to go down to under 2V was “killed deader than hell”.  damn shame, as that was a spendy one, on a Duc that had a mis-behaving relay and sat for a few months without “adult supervision” (Duc service bulletin came out for that known issue, but i hadn’t seen that till it was too late… sigh).  but you can check that battery health within reason.

Hi Gmc28, replacing the battery on 11/24 then into the shop for hopefully much of what has already been mentioned and alluded to in your post.  The tricky part is lost in translation moments with the shop. They seem to only do what's on the order form and not kind of follow through with a noticed problem seeking a solution. My problem. The V11 was in the shop for 8 months, just released in July this year and now she is going back in (sigh). Will keep the forum updated! 

[David Sandbrook]

On 11/6/2024 at 10:26 AM, gstallons said:

Do start your repairs after verifying a GOOD battery. 

 

Just now, David Sandbrook said:

Hi Gmc28, replacing the battery on 11/24 then into the shop for hopefully much of what has already been mentioned and alluded to in your post.  The tricky part is lost in translation moments with the shop. They seem to only do what's on the order form and not kind of follow through with a noticed problem seeking a solution. My problem. The V11 was in the shop for 8 months, just released in July this year and now she is going back in (sigh). Will keep the forum updated! 

 

Just now, David Sandbrook said:

Hi Gmc28, replacing the battery on 11/24 then into the shop for hopefully much of what has already been mentioned and alluded to in your post.  The tricky part is lost in translation moments with the shop. They seem to only do what's on the order form and not kind of follow through with a noticed problem seeking a solution. My problem. The V11 was in the shop for 8 months, just released in July this year and now she is going back in (sigh). Will keep the forum updated! 

 

On 10/31/2024 at 8:17 AM, gstallons said:

@David Sandbrook

David S , did you get your bike repaired / running correctly ?

Hi gstallons...in progress...into the shop on 11/24....

[gstallons]

These ( I  talian ) bikes have a personality all their own . If you don't know the order of procedure , you a screwed . 

Edited December 2 by gstallons

[PeterT]

If the problem is that the battery is not charging (and you can see this most easily by looking at battery voltage increasing as the engine goes above about 2000rpm and the generator can start to charge the battery) then I would agree that the un-sealed connector that the connects the wires from the voltage regulator to the wiring loom that is tied to the frame just below the left-hand side of the fuel tank, is worth looking at, cleaning and protecting it with some protective grease.  On my V11 two 15A wires are used to carry the +ve and two wires the -ve, back via a 30A fuse, to the battery.  The Guzzi guys may be good mechanicals but from an electrical viewpoint they really don't realise the weakness this design introduces.  If any of the connections to these wires introduces some unbalanced resistance, it will cause the other wire to take the majority of the current and overheat.  This is particularly likely just after starting when the charging current can be over 20A.  Before you do this have a good look at the 30A fuse AND particularly its fuse holder for any signs of overheating.  I burnt out three 30A fuses because of resistance between the fuse blades and the fuse holder causing a loss of charging and the engine to stall when the battery voltage fell to about 9V.  I've now had to fit a sealed, in-line Maxi fuse holder that can take up to 100A fuses, though (of course) I put in a 30A fuse.  This just ensures that the fuse contacts are really robust as this seemed to be the weak link in both the original and a replacement fuse holder I fitted.  I have not had a problem since.

[gstallons]

It is hokey-pokey that they run THE current through a small fuse and poor connection connectors . I think I would use a CB or maxi-fuse in place of this stuff....

[docc]

1 hour ago, gstallons said:

It is hokey-pokey that they run THE current through a small fuse and poor connection connectors . I think I would use a CB or maxi-fuse in place of this stuff....

Agreed! Even my Maxi-fuse eventually failed . . .