When is a fuse is a fuse?

[LowRyter]

Being the most inept mechanic in the known world, I was screwing around on my '98 California EV.   My V11 Sport and Ducati perhaps in the shop from now through eternity.  So the taillights and turn signals intermittently fail.  I've diagnosed (Lord help me) the problem to the fuse.  It's just doesn't make good contact.  So occasionally I have to reset or wiggle it, clean it with contact cleaner.

Yesterday I went through the same drill.  So today I decided to clean all the fuses and relays with DeOxit and contact cleaner.  I replaced the fuses and relays a few years ago.  They're all identical (15A).  All cleaned up and randomly put them to their respective slots.  And I never got the taillight/turn signals to ever work.  (Brake light is fine).  I play with all of them, reclean, move them around for perhaps an hour.  Nothing.

As last ditch effort I pull an old fuse, different brand, perhaps one I pulled out in the first place.  And it works.  Like magic.  Not content, I find another one.  An old fuse that is corroded and worn.  Works fine.  

OK, What the heck?  Someone tell me.

[Lucky Phil]

2 hours ago, LowRyter said:

Being the most inept mechanic in the known world, I was screwing around on my '98 California EV.   My V11 Sport and Ducati perhaps in the shop from now through eternity.  So the taillights and turn signals intermittently fail.  I've diagnosed (Lord help me) the problem to the fuse.  It's just doesn't make good contact.  So occasionally I have to reset or wiggle it, clean it with contact cleaner.

Yesterday I went through the same drill.  So today I decided to clean all the fuses and relays with DeOxit and contact cleaner.  I replaced the fuses and relays a few years ago.  They're all identical (15A).  All cleaned up and randomly put them to their respective slots.  And I never got the taillight/turn signals to ever work.  (Brake light is fine).  I play with all of them, reclean, move them around for perhaps an hour.  Nothing.

As last ditch effort I pull an old fuse, different brand, perhaps one I pulled out in the first place.  And it works.  Like magic.  Not content, I find another one.  An old fuse that is corroded and worn.  Works fine.  

OK, What the heck?  Someone tell me.

The new fuse is cracked not blown. FWIW you should never use cheap and cheerful ebay or cheap auto parts fuses always go for the best quality and don't penny pinch on fuses.

 

 

[docc]

What is the rationale behind these new opaque fuse bodies instead of the older clear bodies that allowed easy visual inspection of the fuse link?

[Lucky Phil]

23 minutes ago, docc said:

What is the rationale behind these new opaque fuse bodies instead of the older clear bodies that allowed easy visual inspection of the fuse link?

No idea docc. I haven't actually experienced a blown fuse in years and years.

Phil

[docc]

I think it is a cruel hoax to make the fuse link harder to see. That is, after all, what they were designed for.

Not counting all of the 30 amp "charging" fuses mySport burned, melted, or charred, I have only "blown" one fuse. It was because of a loose connection on the battery positive side.

Seems @LowRyter's new fuse failure is an all too common example of poor quality control in new parts and a seemingly unavoidable state of affairs in the modern supply system. I understand this is a huge impediment to updating the world's nuclear energy establishments. The chance that a defective component, or system, could be installed in the place of a known working component/system is a dire concern in the aircraft industry, yet ever more so in the nuclear arena.

[audiomick]

About the video: if the man can't sort out his audio so that it is not distorted, I'm out of the game. Can't take him seriously, even if he really does know what he is talking about.

As far as fuses go, you don't need a "nano-ohm" meter. If your 10 dollar multi-meter shows no continuity through the fuse, it is no good. Full-stop.

[docc]

18 minutes ago, audiomick said:

About the video: if the man can't sort out his audio so that it is not distorted, I'm out of the game. Can't take him seriously, even if he really does know what he is talking about.

As far as fuses go, you don't need a "nano-ohm" meter. If your 10 dollar multi-meter shows no continuity through the fuse, it is no good. Full-stop.

Reminds me of @gstallons's saying, "Use a test light."

The time has come to test light new fuses before installation . . .

[gstallons]

A test light is the best tool to use . When I am checking for no-power on a circuit , I test EVERY fuse in that fuse block to see one that is not working. 

Yes , it never is bad to use the BEST consumable parts available . IDK what is happening with the parts quality in the States over the last 25 yrs. AZ and other stores sell trash parts. You have to find reputable stores and patronize them . 

 AFA the video Phil posted ; boring , over the top and technical= yes.  Important= yes . I watched this some time ago and it is necessary to know . Watch it a few times until it gets familiar .  This kinda testing is familiar in a classroom environment . There is a reason for this "saturation" on a subject . 

I posted a while back where I posted having purchased a fuse kit that lights up when the fuse is open AKA blown or broken. Terrific if you are broke down at night . These things light up and there is no guessing ! Pricey......yeah ! Worth it .... yeah !  This last place I worked at had a fresh-outta-college KIA in purchasing and everything he purchased was from Amazon or eBay. All the bulbs we installed , half of them would burn out w/in seconds of installation . His response "you must not be putting them in correctly" ? 

[LowRyter]

17 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

The new fuse is cracked not blown. FWIW you should never use cheap and cheerful ebay or cheap auto parts fuses always go for the best quality and don't penny pinch on fuses.

 

 

The fuses weren't new.  I replaced them all like I replaced the relays a few years ago.  I've had some connection problems with fuses on this bike before.  In this case, NONE of those replacement fuses would work in that slot after I cleaned it.  The old fuses I had stashed as spares in my tankbag worked fine, even one that was corroded.  

 

@docc  Now that you mention it, the replacement fuses were the opaque type, the old ones are transparent.  None of the fuses were blown, it's just the newer ones didn't work in that particular slot.  Drove me nuts.

Edited November 11 by LowRyter

[GuzziMoto]

Fuses simply carry electricity from one connection to another. If the fuse can't do that, it is bad. There is no magic there, no mystery. Fuses can "blow", where the sacrificial link that carries said electricity overheats and melts. That is usually obvious to see, assuming the fuse is translucent. That sacrificial link can also break, which can be really hard to see. The fuse can also fail at its job because the method it uses to connect to the electrical harness in the fuse block don't work. This can mean the spades on the fuse simply don't make good contact with the connections in the fuse block, or even that there is enough corrosion or some other surface coating in the connection to prevent it from making the required connection. Even paint or, oddly enough, electrical grease, can cause that. As people here have mentioned, in the end what counts is does the fuse get electricity from one side of the fuse block to the other. If it doesn't, the fuse is failing to do its job, whatever the reason for that failure is. I have long since stopped using a visual inspection to check fuses. Either a meter set to check continuity or a test light to show that the voltage from the supply side gets to the fused side will tell you all you need to know. 

[LowRyter]

3 hours ago, GuzziMoto said:

Fuses simply carry electricity from one connection to another. If the fuse can't do that, it is bad. There is no magic there, no mystery. Fuses can "blow", where the sacrificial link that carries said electricity overheats and melts. That is usually obvious to see, assuming the fuse is translucent. That sacrificial link can also break, which can be really hard to see. The fuse can also fail at its job because the method it uses to connect to the electrical harness in the fuse block don't work. This can mean the spades on the fuse simply don't make good contact with the connections in the fuse block, or even that there is enough corrosion or some other surface coating in the connection to prevent it from making the required connection. Even paint or, oddly enough, electrical grease, can cause that. As people here have mentioned, in the end what counts is does the fuse get electricity from one side of the fuse block to the other. If it doesn't, the fuse is failing to do its job, whatever the reason for that failure is. I have long since stopped using a visual inspection to check fuses. Either a meter set to check continuity or a test light to show that the voltage from the supply side gets to the fused side will tell you all you need to know. 

These fuses aren't "failed" or blown.  This particular group of fuses will just not work in a single slot.  Two old discarded fuses I had as spares will work in that slot.  I assume it's connection.  I notice that each of three different brands of fuses has slightly different "prongs", one has straight ones, two have slight hooks on them (one that works and the other doesn't).  

[Lucky Phil]

2 hours ago, LowRyter said:

These fuses aren't "failed" or blown.  This particular group of fuses will just not work in a single slot.  Two old discarded fuses I had as spares will work in that slot.  I assume it's connection.  I notice that each of three different brands of fuses has slightly different "prongs", one has straight ones, two have slight hooks on them (one that works and the other doesn't).  

I'm guessing over time the female receivers in the fuse block can lose their tension then the contact with the blade is poor and any variation in the thickness of the fuse blades will have an affect on whether or not the fuses make contact. I'm also going to assume the fuse blade contacts have a dimensional tolerance per the standards and the El cheapo fuses probably don't hold well to those tolerances as is the way often with El cheapo stuff.  

Edited November 11 by Lucky Phil

[docc]

2 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

I'm guessing over time the female receivers in the fuse block can lose their tension then the contact with the blade is poor and any variation in the thickness of the fuse blades will have an affect on whether or not the fuses make contact. I'm also going to assume the fuse blade contacts have a dimensional tolerance per the standards and the El cheapo fuses probably don't hold well to those tolerances as is the way often with El cheapo stuff.  

The connection issue made me wonder if the cheapest fuses use very thin blades to minimize materials and better fuse blades are more robust and, therefor, make better contact.

I have also experienced poor connection with females in other aspects, but let's not go there . . .

[LowRyter]

2 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

I'm guessing over time the female receivers in the fuse block can lose their tension then the contact with the blade is poor and any variation in the thickness of the fuse blades will have an affect on whether or not the fuses make contact. I'm also going to assume the fuse blade contacts have a dimensional tolerance per the standards and the El cheapo fuses probably don't hold well to those tolerances as is the way often with El cheapo stuff.  

I was thinking the same.  After I cleaned everything, fuses, relays and sockets, that's when the problem went from intermittent to fail.   Failures always occurred on start up.  I can't recall a failure once I got started.