Espresso

[Tomchri]

Works for me, 6 cups waking up.
Cheers Tom.

Sent fra min SM-S906B via Tapatalk

[activpop]

40 minutes ago, audiomick said:

Sorry...

The one in the film must habe been similar to this when new. I got mine at a flea market, for around €20.- I think. Works fine.

Nice! I wonder where they got the new decal. I'll have to keep my eye out for one. I like the simplicity.

[audiomick]

26 minutes ago, activpop said:

I like the simplicity.

Yes, so do I.

[Lucky Phil]

2 hours ago, audiomick said:

Yes, so do I.

 

3 hours ago, activpop said:

Nice! I wonder where they got the new decal. I'll have to keep my eye out for one. I like the simplicity.

A model T ford is simple as well but you wouldn't want to drive one now in the modern world.

Phil

[docc]

I hate to admit anything about my coffee habit and production methods. Let's say I (machine) grind "good" beans, with a selected roast level, using a derived grind coarseness, and brew with proper extraction time/temperature.

Of course, this is just "coffee" and not espresso. 

[audiomick]

I prefer a flat white to an espresso, mostly. For those that don't know:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_white

So we are talking about a double espresso topped up in a fairly small receptacle with steam-heated milk.

I "discoverd" the variation in Melbourne in the '80s, consistent with the Wiki aricle. Contrary to the article, it is usually served in  a glass, not a porzellan cup.

Anyway...

I can do something very close at home with the Bialettis and a pot to heat the milk.

 

The annoyance is, cafes here in Germany have discovered the term, and are starting to include it in their menus without finding out what it really means. What you tend to get is

A cup half full of foam: WRONG: "flat" means without foam

with just enough liquid milk to be able to say that it is not black coffee: WRONG

made with UHT skim milk, fat content 1.5%. WRONG on two counts. The cream is what it is all about, and UHT milk tastes terrible.

So I regularly take the risk and order a "flat white" here, in the hope that they may have understood the one true way. Mostly, they haven't. Maybe I'll learn one day...

 

[Lucky Phil]

1 hour ago, audiomick said:

I prefer a flat white to an espresso, mostly. For those that don't know:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_white

So we are talking about a double espresso topped up in a fairly small receptacle with steam-heated milk.

I "discoverd" the variation in Melbourne in the '80s, consistent with the Wiki aricle. Contrary to the article, it is usually served in  a glass, not a porzellan cup.

Anyway...

I can do something very close at home with the Bialettis and a pot to heat the milk.

 

The annoyance is, cafes here in Germany have discovered the term, and are starting to include it in their menus without finding out what it really means. What you tend to get is

A cup half full of foam: WRONG: "flat" means without foam

with just enough liquid milk to be able to say that it is not black coffee: WRONG

made with UHT skim milk, fat content 1.5%. WRONG on two counts. The cream is what it is all about, and UHT milk tastes terrible.

So I regularly take the risk and order a "flat white" here, in the hope that they may have understood the one true way. Mostly, they haven't. Maybe I'll learn one day...

 

Don't worry sounds like what Queenslanders think a Latte is. When in Hervey Bay I always ask for a look at what they are going to serve me my latte in after stupidly ordering one early on in my visits there and being presented with a massive Irish coffee glass complete with handle of a milky coffee like concoction for something like $6 and at other places a "MUG" of a similar disaster. Of course the Latte is a pre 10am beverage and I wouldn't be seen dead drinking one after that or a Cappuccino for that matter.   

Happily on my recent trip to Brisbane city they have now grasped what a reasonable coffee should be but outside the state capital it's still a risky order. I once politely asked a Queensland Cafe proprietor when ordering my breakfast Latte why they didn't serve them in the traditional glass and the answer was "we don't like glasses here" meaning in that Cafe. What the customers would like? No interest in that. Good old Queensland where they come out with your breakfast food order on a plate under a stack of other plated orders one on top of the other. Classy they are not.

Phil    

[activpop]

9 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

 

A model T ford is simple as well but you wouldn't want to drive one now in the modern world.

Phil

Apples to oranges. I've been a simple carpenter for over 50 years with an affinity for things well built from wood, especially when they are old. 

 

[Pressureangle]

16 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

 

A model T ford is simple as well but you wouldn't want to drive one now in the modern world.

Phil

Says who? 
Daily driver, no. But the modern world has options. My autistic tendency is to routine and hyperfocus. When I had a drip coffee maker, I couldn't actually focus on anything else because, well, that job wasn't finished yet. I've never been what others call a multitasker. 
So, since the coffee machine will be in view 100% of the time but only in use at most once a day, I may go for form over function. A brass press and a ceramic grinder would please me every time I saw them.
I'll never be without a Moka pot, and those who know me understand that I'm not an entertainer, so making more than 2 cups at a time isn't mandatory. 

[Lucky Phil]

41 minutes ago, Pressureangle said:

Says who? 
Daily driver, no. But the modern world has options. My autistic tendency is to routine and hyperfocus. When I had a drip coffee maker, I couldn't actually focus on anything else because, well, that job wasn't finished yet. I've never been what others call a multitasker. 
So, since the coffee machine will be in view 100% of the time but only in use at most once a day, I may go for form over function. A brass press and a ceramic grinder would please me every time I saw them.
I'll never be without a Moka pot, and those who know me understand that I'm not an entertainer, so making more than 2 cups at a time isn't mandatory. 

Well those that own them, a model T that is. I worked with a guy who's father had a pristinely restored one and I aske him about it's worth. He said about $6000aud at the time and I was shocked. I asked why so little and he replied that they are so impossible to use on modern roads that people aren't interested in them even as a sunny day drive proposition. Backed up by a few other I know in the veteran motoring world.

Phil 

[Pressureangle]

15 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

Well those that own them, a model T that is. I worked with a guy who's father had a pristinely restored one and I aske him about it's worth. He said about $6000aud at the time and I was shocked. I asked why so little and he replied that they are so impossible to use on modern roads that people aren't interested in them even as a sunny day drive proposition. Backed up by a few other I know in the veteran motoring world.

Phil 

That was kinda my point, the pleasure is not in utility. Sometimes, pleasure is in overcoming shortcomings. 

I don't know if you're familiar with the American Amish; Christian fundamentalists who to lesser or greater degree, depending on their sect, reject technology. To wit, John Deere manufactured steel tractor tires until about 1985 to accommodate the Amish. Many still use horses, build magnificent barns with A-frames and ropes, run sawmills with overhead belts a century old. The Conundrum comes when asking, 'how can you have a modern tractor but insist it have tires given up as inefficient before 1940? How can you use a hay baler with a gas engine mounted on it, but not one that uses the tractor PTO? 

None of it made sense until an old Amish man told me, 'it's not about rejecting or accepting technology. It's about never doing it the easiest way; the easy way is a road that leads to fast results and low quality, in product and life'. 

There's a fundamental truth to that, that in my mind extends to such simple things an making coffee.

[Gmc28]

Oh my, did we really get into an espresso thread with an Australian on V11lemans.com?  It’s about damn time!

phil clearly likes finer and/or vintage things (he has a V11!), and he’s Australian, a land full of wonderfully finicky espresso drinkers, so it’s probably safe to say he has no problem with model T’s, but that if you really love to drink espresso, then the model T is going to produce a whole different product than a what a proper modern machine & grinder will do.  Less-so for the espresso machine, which is an easier target to hit than a good grinder.  (Almost) no matter how skilled you are, pulling a perfect shot using a “model T” grinder is damn near impossible, and at the least requires a lot of work, and some luck.  

of course it all depends on what you consider the perfect shot, the question which overwhelmingly colors the whole conversation.  
 

I’ve owned and used wonderful vintage espresso machines, which looked the part, and with considerable effort could produce a fantastic shot, but never without the right (modern, bloody expensive) grinder.  The temp control, plus pressure & flow control of Phil’s new machine is very difficult or impossible to replicate on an old machine.

if you like drip, or have taste for old-world coffee, then no big deal….. life is much easier for you!

for those who like both old world simplicity and the benefits of modern geek-driven (beautiful) madness, are not worried about budget, the Weber HG-2 is spot-on.  And it's not made from wood, for those inclined that way :->

No room in my kitchen for that  (lovely) monstrosity, plus for espresso I prefer a flat burr.  For the flat burr fans, spend double the already large price and get the EG-1, a fantastic unit, that I’ve only used at a friends house.  Fantastic, and consistent.   Just imagine, for only $4000 you can get a nice grinder for your counter that your friends will think is a NASA telescope!  
 

sad that in Italy, where I learned to love espresso so many years ago (as an eye opener compared the Folgers at home back then), where even the little hole-in-wall places did decent espresso, is now largely overrun with the disgusting automatic machines.  Undrinkable, except for medicinal purposes…

Edited 2 hours ago by Gmc28

[Gmc28]

love the lever machine activepop!  a good lever machine along with an HG-2 Weber grinder would seem the ultimate combo for someone who wanted the enjoyable work and "ritual" but also wanted excellent espresso.  just requires real committment.  love it.

[Gmc28]

23 hours ago, Tomchri said:

Works for me, 6 cups waking up.
Cheers Tom.

Sent fra min SM-S906B via Tapatalk
 

gotta have the extra juice to keep a guy warm in Norway this time of year!

I visited Tim Wendelboe's place in Olso this summer... that was a real treat.

[Lucky Phil]

2 hours ago, Gmc28 said:

Oh my, did we really get into an espresso thread with an Australian on V11lemans.com?  It’s about damn time!

phil clearly likes finer and/or vintage things (he has a V11!), and he’s Australian, a land full of wonderfully finicky espresso drinkers, so it’s probably safe to say he has no problem with model T’s, but that if you really love to drink espresso, then the model T is going to produce a whole different product than a what a proper modern machine & grinder will do.  Less-so for the espresso machine, which is an easier target to hit than a good grinder.  (Almost) no matter how skilled you are, pulling a perfect shot using a “model T” grinder is damn near impossible, and at the least requires a lot of work, and some luck.  

of course it all depends on what you consider the perfect shot, the question which overwhelmingly colors the whole conversation.  
 

I’ve owned and used wonderful vintage espresso machines, which looked the part, and with considerable effort could produce a fantastic shot, but never without the right (modern, bloody expensive) grinder.  The temp control, plus pressure & flow control of Phil’s new machine is very difficult or impossible to replicate on an old machine.

if you like drip, or have taste for old-world coffee, then no big deal….. life is much easier for you!

for those who like both old world simplicity and the benefits of modern geek-driven (beautiful) madness, are not worried about budget, the Weber HG-2 is spot-on.  And it's not made from wood, for those inclined that way :->

No room in my kitchen for that  (lovely) monstrosity, plus for espresso I prefer a flat burr.  For the flat burr fans, spend double the already large price and get the EG-1, a fantastic unit, that I’ve only used at a friends house.  Fantastic, and consistent.   Just imagine, for only $4000 you can get a nice grinder for your counter that your friends will think is a NASA telescope!  
 

sad that in Italy, where I learned to love espresso so many years ago (as an eye opener compared the Folgers at home back then), where even the little hole-in-wall places did decent espresso, is now largely overrun with the disgusting automatic machines.  Undrinkable, except for medicinal purposes…

All very true esp the bit about the grinder. When I told the espresso sales guy for the ECM what machine and grinder I currently use (I have two 20 year old semi commercial doser units) he to his credit advised I'd be better off with regards to better coffee by upgrading the grinders first then spend the cash on the ECM machine later on. In many ways the grinder is more important than the machine for making a great shot. So in addition to the machine I bought a new grinder. Anyone that wants a working grinder for free you have a choice of two, a Rancilio Rocky or a Bregant junior. Both are quite weighty so overseas postage wouldn't be worth the money. The Amish only manage to survive because they pretty much isolate themselves from the rest of society and making a coffee on a modern machine is still a ritual believe me.

Nobody loves old stuff more than me, hell I even keep my old espresso machines as ornaments but there no way on earth the old machines can make a perfect, reliably consistent shot of coffee for 1 or 20 people like a modern machine and grinder. I have family members that would rather drink instant coffee than a espresso machine made coffee even if it's for free or I'm paying. Thats how mad some people are these days.   

Phil