Does Moto Guzzi need a mid capacity model, like almost every other major has, or is the V7 successfully fulfills this segment?

[p6x]

The V7/V85 Moto Guzzi engine is the bread and butter of the company. I do not know how well the V100 models are selling, but I would say, the upper segment market is probably not as good as it used to be. Not only for Guzzi.

The core of the market, all manufacturers included, seem to be in the mid engine capacity. This is not true for every manufacturer, but I think that following the 2025 EICMA, and even before that, we have seen a large amount of around the 500cc powered bikes being released.

So far, Moto Guzzi has tapped this market with their V7 successfully.

But I am thinking they could come up with a smaller capacity Vtwin. Obviously, this is tricky, because they don't want to encroach into their V7/V85 business.

While in Paris, I saw many of those lower cubed motorcycles wizzing around. Yes, also many scooters. But for example, the people working at the café where I camped used a KTM 390 Adventure to commute from home. As he said, no need for a bigger bike. This was just good enough to get him through traffic.

Obviously, the US market is not the primary target for a small bike. But the European market could do with some kind of V45TT; the 450cc is all the rage at the moment. Most likely because the Dakar motorcycles are limited to 450cc.

Of course, the factor to be taken into account is Europe's decision to stop all new ICE vehicles sale by 2030. From what I understood, the motorcycles are not concerned, but the way the European parliament is working, one cannot take anything for granted.

So what do you think; should Guzzi consider a smaller V engine?

 

 

[gstallons]

Nah , they are as fast as ice floes on keeping abreast of technology. 

[audiomick]

7 hours ago, p6x said:

should Guzzi consider a smaller V engine?

Interesting question. I'd reckon it shouldn't be too hard to scale down the developments in the newer V7 850 engine to a 500 or so, since the V7 850 engine derives from the old V50. Still, I'm not a motor engineer. Maybe it would be harder than I think.

A relevant question is, I think, what is available from other brands in the Piaggio group? Not in terms of whether there is an engine somewhere that could be re-badged as a Guzzi, but rather in terms of watering down the brand image. Piaggio seems to be doing "this brand for this, that brand for the other". Have they got a bike somewhere in the 450 range that is doing well, and do they want to tempt buyers away from that brand with a competing Guzzi?

Edited December 3 by audiomick

[docc]

2 minutes ago, audiomick said:

Interesting question. I'd reckon it shouldn't be too hard to scale down the developments in the newer V7 850 engine to a 500 or so, since the V7 850 engine derives from the old V50. Still, I'm not a motor engineer. Maybe it would be harder than I think.

A relevant question is, I think, what is available from other brands in the Piaggio group. Not in terms of whether there is an engine somewhere that could be re-badged as a Guzzi, but rather in terms of watering down the brand image. Piaggio seems to be doing "this brand for this, that brand for the other". Have they got a bike somewhere in the 450 range that is doing well, and do they want to tempt buyers away from that brand with a competing Guzzi?

That is well framed. Piaggio has branded Moto Guzzi "travel " (thank goodness IMHO )

As such, nothing less than the 700-850-1000 will do (not in The States, certainly).

If the matter is "commuting", Piaggio has designated the Piaggio line as "urban/commuting " and the Vespa line as "lifestyle " (Aprilia as "sport/racing ").

As such, I don't see the need for a small (smaller than "mid capacity"/ 600-850) for Moto Guzzi. I might feel differently if I lived in Europe or Asia. Otherwise, I feel the various V7/V9/V85 models have addressed the "mid capacity" segment(s) rather admirably

As this matter is regarding capacities less than 600cc, I wonder if the topic title might better read:

Does Moto Guzzi need a small capacity model, like almost every other major has, or is the V7 successfully fulfills this segment?

[audiomick]

Well said @docc.

The 350 Guzzis were created to cover a market created by the Italian registration or insurance laws (I don't remember which, exactly). Same as 400 in Japan (motorcycle licence regulations) and 250 in Australia back in the day when I started riding (Learner Permit and Probationary licence).

These days, motors have got bigger, and at least some of those criteria don't apply anymore (in Victoria, Australia, it is now a power-to-weight  regulation, as far as I know).

Even in Europe, where "small capacity" motorcycles is a relatively dynamic market, I think Moto Guzzi is well served catering to the market that buys a V7 850. There is a market for smaller capacity motorcyles, but it is already well served, including products from Korea and China.

Moto Guzzi is no longer an "Einzelkämpfer". DeepL.com says that means "Lone Fighter", which is pretty close. It is now part of a large concern with a number of brands, and does not need to try and cover the whole market. Better said, the mother concern would be making serious marketing mistakes in trying to cover the entire market spectrum with each and every brand in its porfolio.

So I'm expecting Piaggio to develope the lines that it has been working on for Moto Guzzi for the last, at least, 6 or 7 years, i.e. the V7 range and the V100 range, and probably not make any radical new steps that no-one saw coming.

Edited December 3 by audiomick

[p6x]

@docc

There is a very fundamental difference with motorcycle usage, at least in Texas, from what I can tell. Here, and I am not painting the picture with a blanket statement, motorcycles are used for leisure. To do repeat commutes, people tend to use their four wheeled vehicles. When I was in Europe, I used my motorcycle for every deplacement I had to make; school, work, whatever... rain, shine, winter. Maybe the exception to that rules are biker gangs? because they can only ride on motorcycles.

There is another factor; lane splitting. In Europe, motorcycles go through the cars to save time in traffic. It is an unwritten rule, but if you ride in France, you will notice that car drivers make space for motorcycles by driving close on the opposing limits of their lanes; many car drivers add a scooter to try to minimize commute time. With the exceoption of a few, scooters are usually 125cc.

@audiomick

Many manufacturers are producing motorcycles aimed at a new capacity segment: 400cc. Even here, Triumph brought all its line. We agree that this segment is where Guzzi propose its V7. It makes sense for those with the car driver's licences, that only do the strict necessary to be able to drive a 125cc; or to those newly licenced which have what bike they can drive restricted by the A2 license. For Guzzi, the marketing effort is more complicated, because Piaggio decides what they can do, and they need to balance the Vespa, Piaggio, Aprilia offering. For example, Vespa released a 310cc version of their best selling scooter for 2025. This is to tap the 80 mph to give it an enhanced use for those that have to commute through highways.

In France, on January 1st, 2025, cars manufactured in 2005 will have restricted access to certain zones in every major cities. One of the go around is to get a small motorcycle. This is possibly the market they want to tap.

In my original post, I thought too that Guzzi is unlikely to come up with an engine that would eat into their V7 line, even if I would like them to come up with a smaller "Quota" type of bike, which unfortunately, is already preempted by the Aprilia Tuareg.

 

Edited December 7 by p6x