Sporti & Daytona Fuel Level Sender Replacement?

[Weegie]

Taking off the tank on the Magni 1100 (Sporti in a dress) the fuel tap eventually couldn't take it any more, got 2 new replacements on order from Setin Dinse (the second is for the Hi Cam bike).

https://www.stein-dinse.com/en/moto-guzzi-petcock-m16x1-daytona-rs-california-3-i-e/item-1-1020242-3357-3.html

The fuel level sensor on the bike hasn't worked since I got it, probably a previous owner cross connected the polarity at the tank connector which apparently destroys them.

Anyway I know it's a thermistor unit and I've read a few of the threads on the topic, including @Lucky Phil repair. I've got some cheap thermistors on order from AliExpress, but in the meantime I came across this on the Stein Dinse site.

https://www.stein-dinse.com/en/moto-guzzi-fuel-tank-sensor-daytona-racing-1100-sport/item-afm__609-1139-afm__m_.preis-0.25_.3704.62-categoryId-6797-itemId-1431735.html?afm_m-preis=0.25-3704.62&afm_609=1139

 

 

Installing a superseal plug (for the electrical connections) won't be a problem and I know that this type of float switch was used for some other Guzzi models I believe the Cali was one.

The fitting on the tank is an external M20x1 and wondering if it would fit (that's the same size as the fitting on a standard Sporti tank).

The fuel tap uses a similar approach where the fitting on the tank is an external M16x1. A collar nut screws onto both the tank fitting and the fuel tap's external threads, with a sealing washer between them.

I did send a mail to Stein Dinse but I've yet to receive a reply and quite frankly I'm not holding my breath

I'll wait for a week to see if SD reply, I've also asked them a simpler mail asking thread sizes.

Tempted to try it as they aren't too expensive and it would save a lot of hassle, time and mess, even if it won't be quite as good as thermistor unit.

Comments appreciated

John

[Lucky Phil]

Make sure you modify your new taps John with Viton/fkm seals or they won't last. I did a thread on it a while back. I don't think the float type sender will work in the v11 tank as the float diameter is too large to go through the std sender tank fitting. I may be wrong but if it's that easy then I'm on board as well.

Phil

EDIT..... I just measured to ID of the sender unit adaptor, 14.3mm

Edited December 20, 2024 by Lucky Phil

[docc]

On 12/19/2024 at 2:02 PM, Lucky Phil said:

Make sure you modify your new taps John with Viton/fkm seals or they won't last. I did a thread on it a while back. I don't think the float type sender will work in the v11 tank as the float diameter is too large to go through the std sender tank fitting. I may be wrong but if it's that easy then I'm on board as well.

Phil

EDIT..... I just measured to ID of the sender unit adaptor, 14.3mm

An extensive post by @Lucky Phil regarding the V11 fuel sensor:

Also, his thorough thread on converting the manual fuel tap to a bona fide Lucky Phil EZY GLIDE version:

 

[Weegie]

No reply from SD and being impatient just went ahead and ordered one to see if it works (I doubt it).

With other odds and ends to do on the bikes it would be nice just to get something that's plug & play

I'll post up on the forum on viability when I receive it

Trying to mod the fuel taps looks difficult enough

Thanks @docc & @Lucky Phil 

[Lucky Phil]

1 hour ago, Weegie said:

No reply from SD and being impatient just went ahead and ordered one to see if it works (I doubt it).

With other odds and ends to do on the bikes it would be nice just to get something that's plug & play

I'll post up on the forum on viability when I receive it

Trying to mod the fuel taps looks difficult enough

Thanks @docc & @Lucky Phil 

Id mod the taps for you John as now I have the mill the hardest part is easy but the postage would be a killer.

Phil

[Weegie]

That's very kind of you Phil and I may well take you up on it.

@MartyNZ did post in a drawing of the mod but looking at it, I can't make out the measurements for the positioning of the slot. He did give the length and depth, but I didn't see a datum point on the plunger/spool on where to place it .

If I could get/understand the dimensions I could take the plunger/spool to the local machinists to see if they could carry out the necessary milling operation

Don't think the postage would be any more expensive than having to purchase more fuel taps and it would be great to have them working as they should. I use the taps at least twice a year (usually more) when just doing normal service jobs on the 1100 and the HiCam.

Very much appreciated, thank you

John

PS: More to follow on the fuel level sender when it arrives

[gstallons]

Live like I do , ride it til it sputters , learn how to lay it over to the left a little while , ride it til it does it again . REPEAT . Ride it  til you get to gas AKA petrol . 

[MartyNZ]

On 12/23/2024 at 12:17 AM, Weegie said:

@MartyNZ did post in a drawing of the mod but looking at it, I can't make out the measurements for the positioning of the slot. He did give the length and depth, but I didn't see a datum point on the plunger/spool on where to place it .

If I could get/understand the dimensions I could take the plunger/spool to the local machinists to see if they could carry out the necessary milling operation

I left out the most important dimension, sorry about that. The conical face at the tip of the plunger is the fuel seal face, so it shouldn't be touched. The slot can be the length 1mm from the edge of the cone to at least 5mm from the o-ring groove. The slot width should be wide enough to allow the anti-rotation screw to slide freely.

[Weegie]

Well the sender arrived today, doesn't fit!!!!

If you look at the photo in the first post you can see the base of the sender has an threaded nut and a collar nut, identical to the methodology for the fuel tap, the sender on the Magni (& I'm 99% sure the Daytona, RS and Sporti will be the same) is an M20 and it's externally threaded on the tank fitting with a smooth internal bore, whereas the fuel tap connection uses an M16 internally threaded fitting.

I offered the sender up to the tank, the float section is fine but the nut is too large to install inside the fitting on the tank so I don't think there would even be a way to get it to fit unless the nut on the base was turned down to approx 10mm and stepped to around 16mm (I think).

Thought it was too good to be true and I was correct, also informed SD that the item won't install on any of the morocycles they advertise it as fitting 

[LaGrasta]

… machining talk.

We need an adapter to screw onto the tank, then purchase an alternative petcock. 20m female to 16m male, I believe is the way to go. We need to look for a petcok with the larger hose barb to complete the vision.

 

[Weegie]

The fitting on the tank is an externally threaded 20mm diameter fine thread, the internal diameter of the fitting 10mm smooth bore.

EDIT For Info I think the pitch is 1.0mm as best I can measure

The sender slides into the tank through the smooth bore and a lip at the its base holds it captive on the base of the nut seen at the bottom.

The top hex part of the nut is 20mm and screws onto the external threads of the tank fitting (a bit confusing but it's the best I can do to explain it)

The fitting on the Steinse Dinse sender is 16mm so it's too large to install into the tank.

Some sort of collar/adapter nut to extend and step the 16mm thread to a 20mm might work, but it would be "Heath Robinson" at best and probably look horrible.

It would also lower the height of the sender in the tank, altering the volume of fuel left in the tank and reduce reserve capacity.

I reckon it would be easier to purchase a thermistor and purchase parts to make a new thermistor, as Phil did in this thread, although that's not that easy either.

https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/topic/30780-fuel-level-sensor/page/2/

Edited January 7 by Weegie

[Lucky Phil]

9 hours ago, Weegie said:

The fitting on the tank is an externally threaded 20mm diameter fine thread, the internal diameter of the fitting 10mm smooth bore.

EDIT For Info I think the pitch is 1.0mm as best I can measure

The sender slides into the tank through the smooth bore and a lip at the its base holds it captive on the base of the nut seen at the bottom.

The top hex part of the nut is 20mm and screws onto the external threads of the tank fitting (a bit confusing but it's the best I can do to explain it)

The fitting on the Steinse Dinse sender is 16mm so it's too large to install into the tank.

Some sort of collar/adapter nut to extend and step the 16mm thread to a 20mm might work, but it would be "Heath Robinson" at best and probably look horrible.

It would also lower the height of the sender in the tank, altering the volume of fuel left in the tank and reduce reserve capacity.

I reckon it would be easier to purchase a thermistor and purchase parts to make a new thermistor, as Phil did in this thread, although that's not that easy either.

https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/topic/30780-fuel-level-sensor/page/2/

Yes John I spent a fair amount of time about a year ago or more on this and came to the conclusion that buying a new thermistor and making a new holder was the only viable option. I bought the fuel proof wire and heat shrink and was researching fuel proof potting compounds when I got caught up in other priorities and machined up a simple blanking plug to get the bike put back together and rideable. 

Phil 

[Weegie]

More a point of academic interest, but I wondered why Stein Dinse were advertising this sensor when it was clearly the wrong part, or so I thought!

I'll save you all the details but from a parts manual dive, it appears that early the early Daytona and Sport bikes used a float sensor as sold by Stein Dinse and around 96 changed to the thermistor design.

Just for the geeks