The Software, without which it won’t operate, is only licensed by you.

[ScuRoo]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCh1iGmS1-3/

👆This is very interesting as well as troubling.

You’ll hear that the digital aspects of mechanical devices like cars, farm machinery and of course mobiles etc are not owned by you, even when you’ve signed a document entitled “Sales agreement”. Well, the object may well be yours, but the software, without which it won’t operate at all, is only licensed by you.

This may not have been a long run conspiracy but a consequence of increasing technological advances that require complex software to diagnose, set up and fix problems.

There are a number of problems flowing from this.

First, diagnosing and repairing cars and farm machinery, even basic servicing like oil changes, cannot be done without proprietary information & connection to the manufacturers systems. This is anti-competitive because often you can only have certain tasks done by authorised dealerships, who might go out of business and in any case will charge more.

Next, theoretically (& surmised practically) the thing you thought you owned can be disabled remotely, or you could be denied it’s used under specified circumstances, like location, time of day, the user and numerous other factors.

Also, if you don’t own aspects of the object you thought you’d purchased, it’s speculated that a Great Taking scenario might apply in the event of a large enough default on debt obligations by the licence holder of your equipment. It’s not necessary to seize your property in order to deprive you of it.

When we drive or ride modern vehicles, lack of privacy is inherent in the always-online aspects of recent vehicles. If your dashboard continually displays the prevailing speed limit, interpret that as a connected vehicle & potentially subject to remote interference. It’s unclear how far back you need to go in order to be sure your vehicle operates when you alone elect to use it.

Meanwhile, if you enjoy privacy, ride your carbureted Guzzi and leave your mobile device behind. 
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCh1iGmS1-3/

[68C]

I was told a story about a farmer's combine harvester shutting down into limp mode.  He could only drive it back to the farmyard, would not engage cutting etc.  He then got an email from the manufacturer advising his operator was using the machine wrongly and liable to cause damage.  As it was under warranty they shut it down to avoid a claim.

I thought it was just a conspiracy thing, maybe it was true and the start of bad things.

Edited December 28, 2024 by 68C

[footgoose]

My new 2002 GMC truck had OnStar connectivity. Fairly new back then. The possibilities of abuse of the technology were obvious. Automatically generated speeding tickets, remote shutdown, eavesdropping on conversation, 100% location/time tracking. If my insurance co. had access to this info?, I'd have been cancelled.

 

Can't open the IG link. They want too much info

[gstallons]

AFA farm equipment , Deere & Co. lets you know , you might own the tractor , combine or other self propelled equipment BUT they own the technology .  Hmmm. 

FWIW , when the Russians (or whatever they now go by) liberated all the green equipment  a neighboring Country and took it somewhere else , after a week or so  ALL their self propelled green stuff shut down and would no longer run 

[gstallons]

It is not just Deere & Co. doing this . Highway trucks , offroad equipment , just about anything computer controlled has this "feature" . I understand a Co. keeping this technology "unavailable to the public" to keep farmers from "fixing" things.  

The JD dealer could have sent someone out w/a scanner and diagnosed this guy's problem and helped him get going.  You have to adjust your schedule to accommodate people .  Do understand , what you see on this computer may have or may not have happened . 

 My SnapOn scanner cost me $10k + $150/mo subscription and I am not going to loan it to someone and let them use it and bring it back messed up. 

[LowRyter]

3 hours ago, 68C said:

I was told a story about a farmer's combine harvester shutting down into limp mode.  He could only drive it back to the farmyard, would not engage cutting etc.  He then got an email from the manufacturer advising his operator was using the machine wrongly and liable to cause damage.  As it was under warranty they shut it down to avoid a claim.

I thought it was just a conspiracy thing, maybe it was true and the start of bad things.

Not good if you want your crop in.  When wheat harvest comes around it used to be an 18 hr day.   Anymore, the folks I know with land, contract the farming out.  No point owning all the equipment and using it a week a year, unless you want to be a contractor. 

[Lucky Phil]

I've posted this before. This guy is worth listening to on the subject of not only cars but WW2 aircraft as well. His stuff is extremely well researched and he runs a side company in tuning cars as well as a writing a few books on turbocharging. His full time Gig is a commercial heavy jet captain. Where does he get the time.

 

Edited December 28, 2024 by Lucky Phil

[guzzler]

I remember this from the previous post and thinking what the....

Geez, how long before they also shove a probe up your clacker when you get in the thing and castigate you for what you ate for brekky that morning?

We bought our last new car 8 years ago and when that's done will be looking at a good used option with fook all electronic listening devices / controls and hope like hell I'm off the road before this era really becomes the norm!

Cheers 

 

[audiomick]

7 minutes ago, guzzler said:

... hope like hell I'm off the road before this era really becomes the norm!

I had a thought a few years back, as autonomous vehicles where being talked about quite a lot. I don't like the idea; don't want a car that talks to me or takes decisions on its own, don't want a vehicle that is connected to home office all the time. But then it occurred to me, by the time those things are stable, safe and reliable enough to dominate the roads, I might well be too old to safely drive myself. So who knows, by then I might be glad to have one, assuming I can still afford to run a car of my own.

Edited December 28, 2024 by audiomick

[p6x]

I have two examples myself;

I purchased some French films on amazon videos. My understanding was that once you purchased them, you can stream them as many times as you want. A few years ago, one of those movies had vanished from my account. I contacted Amazon customer service, asking where had the movie gone, and I was explained that Amazon's agreement with the copyright holder of the movie ended, and thus, the movie was taken off the servers. I requested a refund, which at the beginning they said they would not honor, because it is stated in the fine prints that when I purchased the video, unlike a DVD, the movie does not belong to me, and even I had chosen the option to purchase, not rent, I was not entitled to anything. But then I argued they just pulled the movie without informing me. They should have at least sent an email to let me know the movie was removed. Were they hopping I would forget about it? I got a refund, and that was the last time I purchased a movie from Amazon.com.

I purchased a DGI Pocket II video camera. To use the camera, I first needed to download an App. on my phone, then I also needed to create an account. Only then, after pairing the Pocket II would I have been able to use it. I returned the camera, and purchased a used one on eBay. As it had been already enabled, I could use it for its intended purpose, shooting videos. I don't have the app. on my phone as there is absolutely no reason why I need it.

As a matter of fact, avoid downloading any application on your phone, because those track you.

Another example are insurances. They no longer send you the insurance card, they expect you to install the application on your phone. The only time I needed to show my insurance card, for some reason, I needed to enter a password. But the best comes now, if I want the Insurance company to send me an ID card, I have to pay six dollars more to my premium!!!

[guzzler]

Like many bike and car enthusiasts I enjoy riding and driving and actually get quite a lot of satisfaction from doing it well...

If I'm to be merely a passenger while some device controls everything then as much as I hate public transport maybe it'll be time to embrace it. Hopefully by this stage my sphere of movement will be quite limited..... 

[docc]

42 minutes ago, guzzler said:

Like many bike and car enthusiasts I enjoy riding and driving and actually get quite a lot of satisfaction from doing it well...

If I'm to be merely a passenger while some device controls everything then as much as I hate public transport maybe it'll be time to embrace it. Hopefully by this stage my sphere of movement will be quite limited..... 

During a very demanding 2000 mile, high pressure, interstate roadtrip driving for my wife recently, she informed me I am a "bad passenger ."

Without hesitation, I declared, "I AM NOT A PASSENGER, AT ALL!" 

Yes, we're still speaking . . .

And I am still not "just along for the ride."  In fact, at this very moment, I am attempting to make my car-burette'd motorbike roadworthy once again.

[guzzler]

1 hour ago, guzzler said:

Like many bike and car enthusiasts I enjoy riding and driving and actually get quite a lot of satisfaction from doing it well...

If I'm to be merely a passenger while some device controls everything then as much as I hate public transport maybe it'll be time to embrace it. Hopefully by this stage my sphere of movement will be quite limited..... 

When the time comes....

Just hope my mobility scooter won't be subject to this nonsense, but I doubt it...! 

[Lucky Phil]

So there is a very popular manufacturer that currently sells a sporty hatch and even give away a track day with purchase I'm told. Anyway about 3 of these things have actually caught on fire and either been severely damaged or written off. One owner had the manufacturer deny a warranty claim because they down loaded the cars previous driving record and found the owner had driven the car at 87mph at one point which was over the speed limit and therefore fell into the "abuse of the vehicle" category. It was pointed out to them that they provided a track day with the car and didn't seem to mind the owners driving them in the manner they were designed for then.

[Tomchri]

Got a notice from my insurance company the other day, you can get a device in the car so they can follow your driving habit. Better rates if you behave. NO thank you. I rather pay more. What a bloody world. Quite a few of the buddies to, we are happy we grew up in a time with not a lot of restrictions.

Cheers Tom.