Dealerships and Repair Shops Won’t Work on Bikes over 15 Years Old 😳

[Dan M]

I think it's a silly blanket policy. They are passing up a lot of good work and alienating potential good customers.

The worry of people not wanting to pay current prices is easily handled right up front by charging a diagnostic fee, or getting a deposit. If the customer has some skin in the game via a deposit, they are more likely to be serious about fixing the bike.  A policy of charging a storage fee X number of days after the work is completed is also a good motivator to get vehicles picked up and paid.  You soon find out the the trouble is the person, not the vehicle.

A better policy would be "we don't work for assholes" rather than we don't work on old vehicles. 

During my career in the repair business (cars & trucks), we strived to keep customers for life. I can't imagine telling long term customers, many who we had for decades along with their entire families that their vehicle became too old for us.  It's just poor business practice.

[p6x]

1 hour ago, Dan M said:

During my career in the repair business (cars & trucks), we strived to keep customers for life.

It appears that this is no longer the prime objective. Possibly because large dealerships are impersonal. The sales' assistant you are dealing with has no skin in the game, other than getting his bonus if he closes the deal. Besides, there seem to be a lot of turnaround in the staff.

There is another big question mark: as we are progessing in this A.I. powered world, modern vehicles require less skills as they have integrated diagnostic firmware. The mechanics no longer need to have the same skills as before. Nothing is being fixed any longer, but replaced.

We are the witnesses of the end of an era. Electric Motors are very reliable and can run for decades. Once they get the batteries and the recharge sorted, reasonable pricing, the EV market will really take off.

ICE mechanics will slowly wane.

[gstallons]

I remember when I was 17 I had a buddy w/a Dodge Charger with a problem . We called this older man  and described the problem . he told us to take one valve cover off and look for a pushrod off. We got lucky on the first valve cover. Found one bent pushrod and the lifter out of it's bore. Reinstalled the lifter and straightened the pushrod on an anvil  and reinstalled . I will never forget being able to describe the problem to these OLD mechanics and they would tell you before you finished what was wrong ! Boy , it ain't that way anymore !

 The worst thing I have witnessed is going from carb. engines w/ point/condenser ignition systems to outer space technology where you require reprogramming if you replace w/shield wiper blades . or something as stupid as getting a magnet to close to the camshaft(s) on a 3.6  Pentastar (aka Chrysler) engine.  Yes , YouTube it to see how ignorant and sensitive  these are to unwanted magnetism .  I think these vehicles just need a cell phone under the hood w/the # to the closest franchise. 

 I am beginning to wonder if technology is going to destroy the ICE before the EV does

Edited January 6 by gstallons
more info

[pete roper]

Yup, and, providing the world doesn’t end, IC vehicles will end up being an ‘Enthusiast’ hobby, a bit like steam trains are. Oh, they will, at least for the foreseeable future, remain a lot more popular than steam trains simply because unlike steam locomotives IC vehicles were, and are, ubiquitous and everybody in the western ‘Developed’ world will have memories inextricably woven in to the fabric of their lives that will involve them. Be it memories of family holidays as a kid or that thrill of discovery when you took your first trip *Away* independently on your first motorbike or car? Almost everyone will have those and ‘We’ and the generations up to the present will wish to preserve those memories and the items associated with them.

I don’t think IC will need to be legislated out of existence. I think it will just fade into the background. What will replace it? Who knows? Whatever it is will still have the potential to be just as exciting, if society wishes it to be so. As it is more and more people nowadays, and not just young people, seem to be more interested in consumerism and living out a ‘Fantasy’ life vicariously through the lives of others on a small, glowing, screen.

Is that wrong? Or bad? It’s not really my place to say. I’m an old man at the end of my (Enormously lucky!) life. The world I am bequeathing to my children is pretty f*cked up! If I were young I wouldn’t listen to a godammed word people like me say!

[gstallons]

Did you listen to old people when you were young ? I sure didn't , they were clueless dinosaurs !

[pete roper]

8 minutes ago, gstallons said:

Did you listen to old people when you were young ? I sure didn't , they were clueless dinosaurs !

Depended who they were. Some of the wisest people I knew when I was a teenager were retired tradesmen who encouraged my interest in things mechanical.

Snooty, mealy mouthed busybodies always trying to get into other people’s lives and business, (And there were a lot of them around in the seventies!)? Not so much.

[p6x]

22 minutes ago, gstallons said:

Did you listen to old people when you were young ? I sure didn't , they were clueless dinosaurs !

It is a true statement; that being said, the world has evolved a lot since we were young. My parents, grandparents, did not go to college. Back in these days, they had to work already to provide food. Especially after both wars. Education was a luxury then for many. A lot of them were already working at 16...

We got better education than most of them did.

What about technology growing up. I had a black and white TV, with only one channel, programs started at 8:00 pm during the week. Earlier during the weekends.

Today, I don't feel obsolete; my parents probably did, but I do scratch my head wondering how did we get where we are today, with all the nonsense happening around us.

I don't know what the young people are thinking, because they spend most of their time watching screens.

Edited January 7 by p6x

[docc]

Personal transportation options, as I see it,  "going forward" . . .

1) ICE - fix it yourself, better "know a guy" . . .

2) EV - plug in, pay up, throw it away -> repeat.

3) Public transport -  not where I live, but maybe for the city people.

4) Stay home/ work from home/ stare at the screen. There is significant precedent for this option, now.

[Admin Jaap]

Reading this thread somehow reminds me of this song by Rush:
 

My uncle has a country place
That no one knows about
He says it used to be a farm
Before the Motor Law
And on Sundays I elude the eyes
And hop the Turbine Freight
To far outside the Wire
Where my white-haired uncle waits

Jump to the ground
As the Turbo slows to cross the borderline
Run like the wind
As excitement shivers up and down my spine
Down in his barn
My uncle preserved for me an old machine
For fifty odd years
To keep it as new has been his dearest dream

I strip away the old debris
That hides a shining car
A brilliant red Barchetta
From a better vanished time
I fire up the willing engine
Responding with a roar
Tires spitting gravel
I commit my weekly crime

Wind
In my hair
Shifting and drifting
Mechanical music
Adrenaline surge

Well-weathered leather
Hot metal and oil
The scented country air
Sunlight on chrome
The blur of the landscape
Every nerve aware

Suddenly ahead of me
Across the mountainside
A gleaming alloy air car
Shoots towards me, two lanes wide
I spin around with shrieking tires
To run the deadly race
Go screaming through the valley
As another joins the chase

Drive like the wind
Straining the limits of machine and man
Laughing out loud with fear and hope
I've got a desperate plan
At the one-lane bridge
I leave the giants stranded at the riverside
Race back to the farm
To dream with my uncle at the fireside

[pete roper]

Sorry, that sort of sentimental mumbo-jumbo makes me want to puke!

And ‘Rush’? Give me strength! Even when they were *Big* they were more ‘Hobble with a Zimmer Frame’! A mob of talentless mouth breathers with the sophistication of a pit toilet!

I fart in their general direction!

[Bill Hagan]

6 hours ago, pete roper said:

Sorry, that sort of sentimental mumbo-jumbo makes me want to puke!

And ‘Rush’? Give me strength! Even when they were *Big* they were more ‘Hobble with a Zimmer Frame’! A mob of talentless mouth breathers with the sophistication of a pit toilet!

I fart in their general direction!

Nothing like a bit of Roper in the morning.  No need for coffee now.  

The most disconcerting part is when, as here, I agree with him.  

A specialist at digression, I am compelled to add this.

I am especially crabby just now because we cannot get delivery of a new washer and dryer because of snow.  It is now  laundromat time as our hamper is full, and once one's clothes reach a certain stage, deodorant has its limits!

I used my rotator-cuff injury -- my "souvenir of Sardinia" earned on that Guzzi tour  -- to get Kathi to shovel the paved entrance to our driveway yesterday.  Polish wives are magnificent.   

 

 

I did reward her cheerfully done hard work with an Old Fashioned ...

 

 

Anyway, while can get our (Mighty) Fit up and down the gravel drive, the 26-foot box truck would not, especially if an inexperienced driver. 

Best from snowbound (and smelly clothes) at the top of Virginia ...

Bill

Edited January 7 by Bill Hagan
Typical failure to proofread.

[gstallons]

17 hours ago, gstallons said:

Did you listen to old people when you were young ? I sure didn't , they were clueless dinosaurs !

 

maybe I should make an amendment . Did you listen to your PARENTS ?

[Admin Jaap]

On 1/7/2025 at 12:11 PM, pete roper said:

Sorry, that sort of sentimental mumbo-jumbo makes me want to puke!

And ‘Rush’? Give me strength! Even when they were *Big* they were more ‘Hobble with a Zimmer Frame’! A mob of talentless mouth breathers with the sophistication of a pit toilet!

I fart in their general direction!

Tell us how you really feel, Pete! 

[Pressureangle]

The transferrence of technical competence between ICE and electric vehicles isn't absent- it's just unavailable to the majority of 'mechanics'. If your technical ability allows you to fully service a generator/battery/starter, you have nearly everything you need to know to understand the fundamentals of electric vehicles. Of course the computer controls are their own new thing, but if you had the wits to operate an oscilloscope you can operate a diagnostic program. 

I'm not taking a swipe at B level mechanics, simply showing that there is not a complete disconnect between ICE and Electric technical levels of ability. And as far as EV replacing ICE, that won't happen "...until the Saudis say it will" - (Dan Pena). 

EV will evolve alongside ICE until it gains equivalent utility and cost of ownership- which means, they have to make batteries far more energy-dense, fast to charge, and inexpensive to replace than they are now. I expect that there won't be a majority EV surge until Back to the Future comes true, and we get microreactors for engines.

Or until the Apophis asteroid hits Canada in 2029, forcing everyone south of the Mason-Dixon line and onto renewable/nuclear electricity because the hydrocarbon infrastructure has been destroyed. 

Gotta get to writing that book, sooner than later.

[p6x]

1 hour ago, Pressureangle said:

we get microreactors for engines.

N2 powered fuelcells it is, then.

However, the cost of N2 in the USA is expensive. about 30 dollars per kg, and say 5.6 kg for a full tank in the Toyota Mira, which gives you about a 400 miles autonomy.

Now, it seems that you can only refuel your N2 powered car in California.

Its a pity, because the N2 refill is very much like that of gas, give or take a few more safety requirements.

I always felt that N2 fueled cars were a much better solution. Incidentally, I read that it is not as cheap as one may have expected to charge up your EV while on the move. It is only cheap when you have your own charger and charge at home. The fastest DC charges are much more expensive.

Edited January 8 by p6x