Ground odity (reference to space odity by David Bowie): Moto Guzzi 1000 Convert

[p6x]

Were you aware of this one? I found one for sale on Facebook, and I had to look it up because I had never heard about the "Convert".

Did you?

 

Edited January 5 by p6x

[p6x]

This one is for sale in Colorado;

1976 Moto Guzzi Convert. This is a Pittsburgh Penguin themed Guzzi. All graphics and stripes hand painted. No decals. Bike is located in Littleton, Colorado. Full price offer includes shipping to your door. Bike is a 1000cc Convert which has an automatic transmission. Just give it gas to go. No shifting gears. Runs fine, no issues.

[audiomick]

There are a couple of members on the German forum who have Converts. Apparently they are pretty robust, once you know the couple of quirks.

 

Nice film, but the man should really learn how to produce audio properly.

[Lucky Phil]

I think I saw Honda are making one again.

Phil

[docc]

I've known of the Converts, but would have to review their history. Honda has been offering a sort of CVT on a number of models for several years, IIRC.

My first riding buddy, a Mr. Bruce Heath R.I.P., was very fond of the Honda-Matic bikes, both 750 and 450. He was most adept at giving all of his machines appropriate pet names and called his last 450 (that he rode up to the year he passed at 82) "Flo" (short for DynaFlow, a Buick/GM automatic transmission in service 1948-1963).

He had a little brass plaque on the tank:

I shifted gears for fifty years.

At times, it seemed like fun.

But anymore, it's become a chore.

And me, a shiftless bum.

[Lucky Phil]

You know automatics are basically and American and Australian thing. On our recent trip to Italy the vast majority of Italians drive manuals even in the big cities like Rome and Milano. On our first day in Rome we were walking past cars parked in the street and I commented to the wife that no one here drives autos. Fuel costs are too high for autos and also they suck power from smaller engines and Italians like to "drive". Of course larger and luxury cars are autos there as well but even Taxis and delivery vans are mostly manuals. My wifes new KIA is a 1 litre turbo but has a DCT transmission and it goes really well.

I've just had to go SH car shopping for my 22 YO daughter for an older 4 cylinder car as she smashed her's up ( not her fault) and of course she drives an auto. I pointed  out the above facts to her and the fact that adding a manual as an option opened up the choices of cars available and you could save a thousand bucks in the purchase price. So we ended up with a manual for her and she's not too bad at using the clutch except for the hill starts. I've told her she'll get the hang of it and it will just "click". 

The only issue I've heard with Converts is they chew out the drive shaft from the engine to the transmission pump and I think the fix is to use a better material for the drive shaft.

Phil 

[pete roper]

My first long tour of the US was done on a 1980 ‘Vert. I bought it back from the US to Oz and kept it until a couple of years ago. I’d stopped riding it by then, not because I didn’t love it, but because I simply love the CARC bikes more and by then I’d got my Mana for my ‘Auto’ fix and I was totally ‘Over’ using 40 year old bikes as daily riders.

I got to know them pretty well, including their quirks, they are a great machine but you either love ‘em or hate ‘em. There’s really no in between with a ‘Vert!

[audiomick]

52 minutes ago, pete roper said:

... their quirks...

Would you, as a recognised Guru and experienced Convert owner (ex), care to list "their quirks"?

I've read some stuff, but haven't retained it, as a Convert is not on my shopping list. The only thing I can remember is that one cannot shift from "high range" to "low range" without stopping. Not a real problem, most "proper" 4WD cars are the same, if I recall correctly. But one must know such things.

Edited January 5 by audiomick

[pete roper]

The ‘Changing on the fly’ problem is that the transmission is not a ‘Shifting’ transmission in the traditional sense. It is really just a torque converter drive with a two ratio gearbox behind it. The difference between high and low ratios is so great that if you pull in the clutch and try to ‘Change Gear’ as you would in a conventional constant mesh box the speed differential between the dog clutch and the pinions is enormous! It will engage, either up or down, but with an almighty crunch as the dogs engage and this ends up rounding them off so, if you are just using high range say, and you whack the throttle open at low speed it may spit itself out of high and into low which can cause rear wheel lock-up and loss of control. I’ve ridden ‘Verts that have done it and it’s f*cking dangerous!

There is also the issue of the clutch itself. Because it was never meant to be used as a moving gear-change clutch it won’t handle the load for long. It’s a small, dry multi plate unit that was originally designed and used for something like the Stornello or Lodola as a wet unit. It’s not supposed to cope with large sliding friction torque as it is only on the transmission to enable the swap from low to high or visa-versa, at a standstill. If you use it ‘On the fly’ the considerably greater sliding frictional loads and power pulses ensure that both the clutch hub and clutch basket get notched very quickly and after that the plates won’t separate so the clutch ceases to function!

Back in the day the owners handbook covered this quite forcefully but because no bugger ever reads the owners handbook or they ‘Know better’ an awful lot of ‘Verts ended up with rooted clutches and transmissions.

There are several other ‘Vert’ specific oddities as well I can list if you like? And if I can remember them!

[audiomick]

18 hours ago, pete roper said:

There are several other ‘Vert’ specific oddities as well I can list if you like? And if I can remember them!

Well I'd be interested, if you can find the inspiration. Even though I'll probably never have one, I find the Convert somehow fascinating.

[pete roper]

Well, off the top of my head……..

They used a very tall final drive. Enormously tall. Compensated for by lower internal ratios in the gearbox.

The driveshaft and universal joint are a ‘One piece’ unit and they use the 20 tooth spline form used on the V11 and later bikes rather than the ‘Standard’ 10 spline system.

It is critical to keep the ignition timing spot on as if the motor ‘Kicks Back’ while starting it has a tendency to round off the hexagonal key that drives the torque converter fluid pump. Drive is then lost as the fluid overheats. They are also very touchy about what type of ATF to use.

Early ‘Verts had a lightweight, pressed steel, flywheel that tended to rip its centre out. Later ones have an enormous forged steel item that weighs about as much as a neutron star!

As well as the standard ‘Vert, which closely resembled a T3/G5 with cow-horn bars and a weird tail light, the engine and transmission were also used in an automatic version of the California II.

All their owners are strange, hump-backed midgets, usually with a withered arm, buck teeth and rickets. They tend not to bathe often and may or may not have communicable diseases so it’s best not to touch them. In fact try and keep them at arm’s length and stand upwind of them if possible. I am, obviously, the exception that proves the rule……….

Edited January 6 by pete roper

[audiomick]

21 hours ago, pete roper said:

... They are also very touchy about what type of ATF to use....

Ah, now that you mention it, I think I had read references to that on the German forum.

Thanks for your insights, particularly those regarding the riders. I had had my suspicions.

[Lucky Phil]

On 1/7/2025 at 10:11 AM, pete roper said:

Well, off the top of my head……..

They used a very tall final drive. Enormously tall. Compensated for by lower internal ratios in the gearbox.

The driveshaft and universal joint are a ‘One piece’ unit and they use the 20 tooth spline form used on the V11 and later bikes rather than the ‘Standard’ 10 spline system.

It is critical to keep the ignition timing spot on as if the motor ‘Kicks Back’ while starting it has a tendency to round off the hexagonal key that drives the torque converter fluid pump. Drive is then lost as the fluid overheats. They are also very touchy about what type of ATF to use.

Early ‘Verts had a lightweight, pressed steel, flywheel that tended to rip its centre out. Later ones have an enormous forged steel item that weighs about as much as a neutron star!

As well as the standard ‘Vert, which closely resembled a T3/G5 with cow-horn bars and a weird tail light, the engine and transmission were also used in an automatic version of the California II.

All their owners are strange, hump-backed midgets, usually with a withered arm, buck teeth and rickets. They tend not to bathe often and may or may not have communicable diseases so it’s best not to touch them. In fact try and keep them at arm’s length and stand upwind of them if possible. I am, obviously, the exception that proves the rule……….

Guzzi sound like the motorcycle manufacturers version of ADF (Australian Defence Forces). Throw lots of money at stuff that ultimately goes nowhere. Auto transmissions that are problematic, Hydraulic Valve lifters for an engine with the easiest valves in the world to adjust, front/rear linked brakes, and enough superfluous steel wasted in flywheels over the years to build a Battleship.   

Phil

Edited January 8 by Lucky Phil