Natural disasters and escaping with your life...

[p6x]

As I am watching the current fires in Los Angeles, two things came to mind;

1) Rudyard Kipling and his poem "IF-": watch the things you gave your life to, broken... like everyone else, I have experienced loss. I am not talking about loss of life, but loss of memorabilia that you were attached to. I know it is incredibly difficult when you know and realize that you will never be able to get them again, at least not in the same format for some.

2) Evacuation; I was looking at the completely packed roads of people literally making a run for their lives, I thought that in such a situation, I would probably try to make it with my motorcycle, as I could easily overtake without blocking oncoming traffic, mainly composed of rescue vehicles. I know it may not be well regarded, but when I see those people in their cars, completely immobilized, while the fire is raging around, I wonder how better the evacuation could be improved upon if everyone was on a motorcycle! I would not even bother taking anything with me.

Texas has designated Hurricane evacuation routes. I was not home when Ike hit Houston in 2008, but I have seen the roads being packed in the same way. So, motorcycles would certainly make better use of the limited roads space.

[gstallons]

I can't press the like button to this . I can only say prayers for these folks and hope for a safe exodus .

[Scud]

It's really bad in the LA area, and still spreading. 30 years ago, I worked in Pacific Palisades, and the fires have come close to my old office. 

As for losing stuff... we used to have some boxes of old photos and significant documents that we told ourselves we would grab if there were ever a fire here. But that was when the kids were home and we would all go together in a truck. Now we are actually scanning and digitizing all that. If my house were to burn down, I do have one prized possession that would likely survive it: a 400 pound hunk of petrified wood. It's made it over 250 million years, it wouldn't give a damn about a house fire.

Evacuation... I too, would escape on a motorcycle. It would be the Husqvarna 701 for sure. A giant street-legal dirt bike that's good for two people with backpacks for food and water. If I am actually fleeing for my life from a fire, I am not going to be constrained to stay on the road.

Several years ago, when there was a big fire in East San Diego county that was headed west, most of San Diego County was placed under evacuation. The potential routes were: East into the fire, South into Mexico (only two border crossings), West into the Pacific Ocean, and North to Orange County (with literally only one road, the I-5 through a military base) to use. I think they lifted the evacuation when they realized there was no realistic way to get everyone out.

[activpop]

Getting away with your life is most important, for you and your family, but I can't imagine the feeling of losing everything. It must be devastating. I hope when they rebuild they can use more fire resistant methods. Cedar roofs and big overhangs are the weak links in a wind driven fire.

When there were quakes in CA and OR, the building codes were changed to build stronger. IDK if codes can be changed a bit so homes can be more resilient in a fire too.  

[p6x]

Using an adventure/dual-sport/trail bike would certainly be an advantage, although as far as I could see from the news, there are no clear path out through the woods and terrain.

According to my colleagues that were in Houston during Ike, the main ordeal was to get outside of the city and suburbs, as gas stations had no power. But then, as soon as out of the danger zone, supplies were available and safe haven camps were setup by the authorities. It took more than a month for power to be restored though, and with those wooden houses, there is nothing that can be salvaged once mold sets in.

As for fire retardant material for home constructions, I don't think anything can resist the generated heat without permanent damage.

Unfortunately, the bulk of my photos are printed. It would cost me a lot of money to get them digitalized. Since the general understanding is that it takes three generations to completely forget about you, I am guessing that all those pictures have only value with me, as long as I am alive. Once I am gone, nobody will miss them.

Edited January 9 by p6x

[gstallons]

It makes you realize everything ends up into two categories : jetsam or flotsam .

[activpop]

21 hours ago, p6x said:

 

As for fire retardant material for home constructions, I don't think anything can resist the generated heat without permanent damage.

 

I was referring to methods, although fireproof materials need to be in the mix. For instance, why are cedar roofs even allowed? If we continue to build like we do now, this will keep happening. One house on a street ignites, and it goes from house to house to house. Methods and architecture needs to be changed for every rebuild, and that can only be regulated by municipalities.  This might not happen overnight, but the climate has definitely changed and it makes these events more intense. If we don't change how we build, this will be a rinse and repeat possibly every few years.

[p6x]

3 minutes ago, activpop said:

I was referring to methods, although fireproof materials need to be in the mix. For instance, why are cedar roofs even allowed? If we continue to build like we do now, this will keep happening. One house on a street ignites, and it goes from house to house to house. Methods and architecture needs to be changed for every rebuild, and that can only be regulated by municipalities.  This might not happen overnight, but the climate has definitely changed and it makes these events more intense. If we don't change how we build, this will be a rinse and repeat possibly every few years.

Agreed.

To be honest, I was very surprised to see that ALL the houses here around me I built out of sheet rock and wood. This is a very good recipe for disaster as any fire would spread fast.

When you look at the desolation in Pacific Palissade (Palissade means fence in French; I am saying this because I bet not many knew that.), you can see the only standing structures are the fireplaces, wth the chimney on top. Because that is the only part of the building made of stones or refractar bricks.

[audiomick]

The Australian experience (bushfires are a fact of life, always have been and always will be) shows that it is not just the building methods. Things like not having big trees right up against the house, keeping the rain gutters free of debris, a whole list of things, are also crucial.

[activpop]

We know how to do it, but aesthetics usually trumps fire resistance. At the present time these things are suggested, not required. That might be changing soon.

http://drupalweb.forestry.oregonstate.edu/forest-owner/sites/default/files/fireresistance.pdf

 

[guzzler]

It would also help if the tree huggers cleared a bit of undergrowth whilst on the job......

[audiomick]

24 minutes ago, activpop said:

At the present time these things are suggested, not required....

I didn't read all of that document. Just scanned it, but it is all so familiar...

[activpop]

1 hour ago, guzzler said:

It would also help if the tree huggers cleared a bit of undergrowth whilst on the job......

Maybe explain how undergrowth played a part in this event.

[audiomick]

19 minutes ago, activpop said:

Maybe explain how undergrowth played a part in this event.

In Australia, at least, the problem is that the Aboriginies, before the Europeans came, used to burn off regularly to create grazing ground for the kangaroos. That doesn't happen any more, and the current experts are still learning how to deal with the bush and how much, and how often, it has to burn to stay healthy. The bush in Australia needs to have low-grade fires regularly to stay healthy. Too much "protection" leads to a build-up of highly flammable detritus, so that when it inevitably burns, the fire is too hot for the trees and kills everything instead of renewing it.

From the document that you linked:

Quote

New homes are being built in relatively dry, low-elevation foothills and canyons
amidst highly flammable vegetation that, before systematic fire suppression and fire exclusion, burned fairly
frequently. In these WUI areas, fire ignition risk and fuel hazards are now extremely high.

I suspect a similar situation: forest that was left to its own devices and burned "cold" regularly is now, in the vicinity of new housing developements, not able to burn off, and is not being cleared. This leads to a build-up of dead material on the ground, so when it inevitably does burn the fire is much hotter than it would have been under "natural circumstances", and is much harder to keep under control.

Once again the "Australian experience", which is currently not always practised in Australia as I understand it, shows that the way to go is make sure there are no easily flammable sources in and around the buildings, and set "cold burns", i.e. deliberate forest fires under conditions that are not conducive to wildfires (winter, just after rainfall, whatever), to keep the amount of detritus on the ground under control.

Edited January 10 by audiomick

[guzzler]

Yep, well done Mick.