Voltage regulator broken? Confirmation requested

[Tinus89]

Hi all,

 

Recently I noticed the charge light on the dash illuminating at idle more frequently. The battery is recent, measures 12,85v with everything off and cold starts are no problem.
2001 V11 Rosso Mandello non-limited edition series, 47k km, suspect original regulator.

I therefore checked the charging voltages at the battery:

- Idle, lights off: 12,9v
- Idle, lights on: 12,4v but fluctuating on a downwards trend, eventually going below 12v
- 3k rpm lights off: 13,9v
- 3k rpm lights on: 14,8v. This seems high, when I switch on/off the lights this moves the charge voltage between 13,8v and 14,8v.

I am running an aftermarket LED H4 replacement, so I thought: maybe that throws the regulator off. Replaced it with a normal H4 bulb & redid the measurements.
Basically the same behavior, however with a better "idle lights on" voltage of 13,3v, however when I switch on the lights at 3k rpm, the charge volts jump to 15,1v!!
Also using the horn (the only other significant switchable consumption on the bike), raises the charge from 13,8v to 14,8v.

I confirmed all connectors are good and both charge lead to battery (via 30A fuse) as well as ground from regulator case to battery come in at 0,0 Ohm.
I also confirmed the two yellow wires to the generator are in good condition (also the infamous connection on the stator).

 

Question: is there something in the charge light circuit that could cause this behavior (I have not yet dismounted the dash to take measurements there) or is symply my regulator on it's way out?

Edited January 9 by Tinus89

[gstallons]

just asking , when does the light come "on" and for how long ? 

[Tinus89]

5 hours ago, gstallons said:

just asking , when does the light come "on" and for how long ? 

At idle, when the engine is warmed up. Sometimes it burns really solid, sometimes it comes and goes. Always at idle, never above.

[Weegie]

Not sure if I'm looking at the correct wiring diagram, but is fuse 3 good and the connections to it?

I think that's the Reg/Rec feed to the battery 30A

Is this the Ducati Energia Reg/Rec?................. @docc will know

If it's the same Reg/Rec as used on the 1100 Sporti, there was quite a good thread on it on WG years back, but that in that was for a bike not charging

Here's a link

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=84467.0

I'd check it's the same Reg/Rec first & I could be talking out my ass

 

 

Edited January 9 by Weegie

[docc]

The R/R is, indeed Ducati Energia. This light/ voltage behavior is very similar to the last time mine needed replacing.

[Weegie]

My nomiker on WG was Old Jock, so you'll see me on the thread I posted the link to

If it needs replacing (& I mentioned it on the WG thread, but haven't had to replace the Reg/Rec yet) everybody seems to use Euromoto electric, personally I'd consider installing one of the Mosfet regulators from Shindengen. Although the 2 offerings from Shindengen are for 3 phase Alternators they can be used in a single phase configuration, check with Jack at Roadstercycle if you're thinking about it.

http://roadstercycle.com/index.htm

There is both a shunt regulator FH020AA(shorts the alternator output) and a series SH847 (opens the alternator output), with the series being a good bit more expensive. The original Ducati energia Reg/Rec is a series type (according to @Kiwi_Roy ) which is unusual.

The reason for mentioning Shindengen is everybody in the Guzzi community purchases from Euromoto Electric (personally not a fan as they don't reveal any tech info and some of their kits void warranty if an AGM or LiFe battery is used). Everybody from Ducati (AFAIK) uses Shindengen as replacements.

One more thing don't use any of Flea Bay offerings which are ridiculously cheap as they are not the real item and God Knows what's inside them

I'll get off my soapbox and get ma coat

[Pressureangle]

Mine had marginal voltage from the time I bought it, and continually gradually worstened until it became problematic. Short story is the wires from the generator to the regulator had a connection under the tank that had gone sour. Removed the connection (rather than replace the connectors) and voltage went from 13.3-ish to 14.2. Idle charge went from 12.3-ish to 12.8-ish. My idle is probably 100-200rpm lower than recommended, I'm idling 1100 + or - 100. 

[Lucky Phil]

It's a V11 Guzzi. First thing you do when you have any electrical issue/gremlin is do a full wiring harness/fuse block/connector/ignition switch detailed inspection. Then move onto parts replacement/testing.

Phil 

[MartyNZ]

3 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

It's a V11 Guzzi. First thing you do when you have any electrical issue/gremlin is do a full wiring harness/fuse block/connector/ignition switch detailed inspection. Then move onto parts replacement/testing.

Phil 

...and make extra certain that the regulator is well grounded.

[Tinus89]

15 hours ago, Weegie said:

Not sure if I'm looking at the correct wiring diagram, but is fuse 3 good and the connections to it?

I think that's the Reg/Rec feed to the battery 30A

Is this the Ducati Energia Reg/Rec?................. @docc will know

Yes, the 30A fuse is good (has been replaced with a Midi Fuse holder a while back due to a hot 30A fuse).

13 hours ago, Weegie said:

My nomiker on WG was Old Jock, so you'll see me on the thread I posted the link to

If it needs replacing (& I mentioned it on the WG thread, but haven't had to replace the Reg/Rec yet) everybody seems to use Euromoto electric, personally I'd consider installing one of the Mosfet regulators from Shindengen. Although the 2 offerings from Shindengen are for 3 phase Alternators they can be used in a single phase configuration, check with Jack at Roadstercycle if you're thinking about it.

http://roadstercycle.com/index.htm

There is both a shunt regulator FH020AA(shorts the alternator output) and a series SH847 (opens the alternator output), with the series being a good bit more expensive. The original Ducati energia Reg/Rec is a series type (according to @Kiwi_Roy ) which is unusual.

The reason for mentioning Shindengen is everybody in the Guzzi community purchases from Euromoto Electric (personally not a fan as they don't reveal any tech info and some of their kits void warranty if an AGM or LiFe battery is used). Everybody from Ducati (AFAIK) uses Shindengen as replacements.

One more thing don't use any of Flea Bay offerings which are ridiculously cheap as they are not the real item and God Knows what's inside them

I'll get off my soapbox and get ma coat

Thanks for getting onto your soapbox haha! Personally, for things like these, I would absolutely stay away from buying something which is not the real thing. Rather spend a Euro or two more. That being said, with my location being Europe (Netherlands), buying the regulator in a US shop is not most efficient...

11 hours ago, Pressureangle said:

Mine had marginal voltage from the time I bought it, and continually gradually worstened until it became problematic. Short story is the wires from the generator to the regulator had a connection under the tank that had gone sour. Removed the connection (rather than replace the connectors) and voltage went from 13.3-ish to 14.2. Idle charge went from 12.3-ish to 12.8-ish. My idle is probably 100-200rpm lower than recommended, I'm idling 1100 + or - 100. 

Checked, cleaned & treated (Caig DeOxit) all connections from the regulator with the exception being the connections behind the instrument dash. My idle is also a bit low, but it is moreso the high charge with load (15+V) which concerns me most.

11 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

It's a V11 Guzzi. First thing you do when you have any electrical issue/gremlin is do a full wiring harness/fuse block/connector/ignition switch detailed inspection. Then move onto parts replacement/testing.

Phil 

I know Phil, which is what I have done, with the exception of the terminals at the back of the instrument dash light. But given the light works, is that still worth doing so for the operation of the regulator?

7 hours ago, MartyNZ said:

...and make extra certain that the regulator is well grounded.

It has a specific ground to battery & a second (3rd?) specific ground to the engine case. Measuring resistance from regulator case to battery negative gives 0.0 Ohm.

Edited January 10 by Tinus89

[docc]

I stumbled across this R/R at Getor Moto in Germany, reportedly manufactured by Johannes J. Matthies GmbH & Co. KG:

https://www.getor.de/Regulator-rectifier-for-Cagiva-Ducati-Moto-Guzzi

Perhaps, Getor Moto is a resource we should know about?

edit/ Jan 17 2025: I am sorry to report I am having a bad time resolving an issue with this seller over a shipping foul-up. I have to put them (Getor Moto) in the "not recommended" category. Too bad.

[audiomick]

38 minutes ago, docc said:

...Johannes J. Matthies GmbH & Co. KG:

That's this lot:

https://motomike.eu/en/?ftype=

I don't know for sure, but I have the definite impression that they are the, or one of the, largest wholesale parts suppliers here. The workshop that I go to when I need something looks there first. The linked site is the shop where Joe Bloggs can buy stuff. This is the wholesale home-page, I think.

https://www.matthies.de/en/aktuelle-nachrichten.html

 

Whatever, something they have produced (they don't make it themselves, for sure...) is probably not too bad.

 

EDIT: company history from their home page. It is a family owned company. The current company manager is apparently the grandson of the founder.

https://www.matthies.de/en/unternehmensgeschichte.html

Edited January 10 by audiomick

[audiomick]

1 hour ago, docc said:

Perhaps, Getor Moto is a resource we should know about?

Perhaps they are, I don't know. I think the fact that Matthies has a regulator produced is more relevant. There are any number of suppliers that sell stuff from Matthies.

EDIT: or direct from Motomike, assuming they deliver outside of Germany.

https://motomike.eu/en/search/7002035/in/all/article/903853

Observant readers will notice that that is the same picture that docc posted further up, this time direct from the Matthies site.

I've already established in the past, looking for other things, that there are a number of suppliers who offer stuff that they source from Matthies using the same part numbers that Matthies uses.

Edited January 10 by audiomick

[docc]

4 minutes ago, audiomick said:

Perhaps they are, I don't know. I think the fact that Matthies has a regulator produced is more relevant. There are any number of suppliers that sell stuff from Matthies.

EDIT: or direct from Motomike, assuming they deliver outside of Germany.

https://motomike.eu/en/search/7002035/in/all/article/903853

 

I learned about Getor Moto through US eBay sourcing a gasket set for my GB 500. They have been good to deal with in spite of a shipping debacle that was not their fault. They do not have a lot for the V11 SpineFrame, but some.

[audiomick]

3 minutes ago, docc said:

I learned about Getor Moto through US eBay...They have been good to deal with...They do not have a lot for the V11 SpineFrame, but some.

Thanks. Good to learn about a reliable "local supplier", even it they are more than 500 km away from me.