EV/battery powered transportation trends

[LowRyter]

5 hours ago, p6x said:

I am an Hertz Gold member from my working days.

There was a time when I was getting an email from them, each and every day about renting a Tesla for a heavy discount.

I recently came accross an add stating Hertz was unloading a bunch of Teslas at sacrificed prices. Just out of curiosity, I went on their website to check out what "sacrificed prices" meant. It was all a lure. The so-called "discount" pricing was for cars that had around 100k miles, so well amortized already. The lower mileage cars were in the exact same price braket as what you could find on the market.

This is not the first time I see adds for rental companies supposedly heavily discounted cars. When I was looking for a 911, I used to scan their offers, and their ask price was in the same range as other dealerships. Plus, they did not have the right color (here we go again).

 

They're still unloading a lot of Teslas, I wouldn't think they would sell them less than market value but the number they're selling certainly would impact the market.

[LowRyter]

The solid state battery is suppose to have a weight to energy mass of a gasoline.  About 3 times better than current EVs.  Ford was supposed have them on the market by '25 or '26 (not heard anything).  China is supposed to have them now.  

The Ford  CEO drives a  Xiaomi SU7.  This thing is $30k and drives (and looks) like a Taycan.  He loves it.  

Edited January 12 by LowRyter

[Joe]

13 minutes ago, LowRyter said:

The solid state battery is suppose to have a weight to energy mass of a gasoline.  About 3 times better than current EVs.  Ford was supposed have them on the market by '25 or '26 (not heard anything).  China is supposed to have them now.  

The Ford  CEO drives a  Xiaomi SU7.  This thing is $30k and drives (and looks) like a Taycan.  He loves it.  

LowRyter you are correct the Chinese are in hyper speed developing EV cars. Whats interesting to me is how you can see elements of SAIC partnership bits in these new models. Like you said Porsche, VW, GM and other styling elements clearly “borrowed” from legacy car makers. Add that most of these Chinese brands make cell phone batteries or are battery makers have a cost advantage on manufacturing the battery. Kyle from Out of Spec loved it, it’s legit.

The only thing saving Tesla is their thrifty innovative factory production and FSD software thats still ahead, barely. 

Solid state tech is promising much longer range and quicker charging which will be a game changer. A new Tesla model 3 rwd long range has 375 range, which is really good for lithium battery car.

[audiomick]

I'd never heard of solid state batteries, but went looking. Wiki knows everything. If the article is to be believed, the technology is just about to burst onto the world market.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_battery

[p6x]

3 hours ago, Joe said:

Add that most of these Chinese brands make cell phone batteries or are battery makers have a cost advantage on manufacturing the battery.

The Chinese have actually many advantages over the rest of the world.

They have secured all the rare metals mining from the places where they can be found, principally Africa, but not only.

They have perfected the know how and buit the machines to make the batteries.

About every car manufacturer in the World use Chinese batteries, or purchase the machines to make the batteries, the raw material to make the batteries.

The collapse of NorthVolt put an end to Europes' attempt to have their own battery manufacture. They found out the hardway that China is ten years ahead of anybody else. The European brands have no alternative but to purchase Chinese components to make their EVs, making them more expensive than the imported Chinese cars. 

To prevent total collapse, Europe had to tax Chinese EV cars import. But it works against adoption. For example a BYD sold equivalent of 23k USD in China, is sold 38k EUR in EEC!!!

You cannot purchase BYD vehicles in the USA. The cheapest Tesla, the model 3, is 30k USD. Then you need to add taxes, destination charges and what not. The Tesla cars use Lithium batteries, and I could be wrong, but if they want to use solid state batteries, they would also need to get theirs from China.

Only two manufacturer are not in China: Samsung South Korea, Panasonic in Japan.

The US has the know how and technology to make fuel cells. This was used to power spacecrafts since Mercury, I believe.

Why does it need to be only EVs?

[Lucky Phil]

5 hours ago, LowRyter said:

The solid state battery is suppose to have a weight to energy mass of a gasoline.  About 3 times better than current EVs.  Ford was supposed have them on the market by '25 or '26 (not heard anything).  China is supposed to have them now.  

The Ford  CEO drives a  Xiaomi SU7.  This thing is $30k and drives (and looks) like a Taycan.  He loves it.  

This is what rational people are are up against. This statement is total rubbish. Currently Solid State batteries have at best an energy density of 500-800 WH/KG while gasoline is 12,700 WH/KG and an efficient ICE engine is between 30-40 % efficiency. Same as Range claims that when tested in the real world fall not just a bit short but orders of magnitude short. Charging time? well headline charge times are to 80% battery capacity and that last bit they always leave out. It's in the fine print. It's the last 20% that takes the time and is what you need on a long trip.

Phil

Edited Sunday at 06:05 AM by Lucky Phil

[Chuck]

Quote

It's the last 20% that takes the time and is what you need on a long trip.

Uhh, cars.. like phones, are only charged to 80% to maximize battery life unless absolutely necessary. On a trip the navigation will take you to a supercharger when you have 15-20% charge left. Then, it will only charge as much as needed to get to the next supercharger on the route when you have 15-20% left. Generally, that takes around 15 minutes, but can be less.

A trip certainly takes longer because of that, but Dorcia and I made a pact 20 years or so ago to stop every two hours and walk around a bit to ward off blood clots in old people's legs. That argument is a non starter for us but YMMV.

[Joe]

Both of these cars are available in US, range test at 70mph was around 370. Like Chuck, I get out of the car every couple hours give or take. For me 370 range is farther than my bladder’s  anyway but that’s another story.  If you put the destination in the car, it will stop you at Superchargers, typically around bathrooms & food.

[gstallons]

16 hours ago, LowRyter said:

The solid state battery is suppose to have a weight to energy mass of a gasoline.  About 3 times better than current EVs.  Ford was supposed have them on the market by '25 or '26 (not heard anything).  China is supposed to have them now.  

The Ford  CEO drives a  Xiaomi SU7.  This thing is $30k and drives (and looks) like a Taycan.  He loves it.  

And I would tell that Ford CEO he could drive that EV straight out the gate and find him a new job ! If he can't support the Company that writes his check..... 

You don't work for the University of Louisville and wear Blue & White clothing .

Edited Sunday at 04:59 PM by gstallons
more info

[gstallons]

The scary thing about developing the perfect/superior EV battery is ; what happens when your new perfect / superior EV battery has now been usurped by a new EV battery that is now 5% lighter , 5% more efficient and 5% less expensive. This goes well until a newer EV battery is developed that is 2.5% better in all of these areas.

This goes along the lines of MX bikes in the 70s-80s.  Today's technology is GREAT until tomorrow's bike hits the showroom .

 

[Lucky Phil]

6 hours ago, Chuck said:

Uhh, cars.. like phones, are only charged to 80% to maximize battery life unless absolutely necessary. On a trip the navigation will take you to a supercharger when you have 15-20% charge left. Then, it will only charge as much as needed to get to the next supercharger on the route when you have 15-20% left. Generally, that takes around 15 minutes, but can be less.

A trip certainly takes longer because of that, but Dorcia and I made a pact 20 years or so ago to stop every two hours and walk around a bit to ward off blood clots in old people's legs. That argument is a non starter for us but YMMV.

Reminds me of the argument Harley Sportster or Indian FTR owners use for their 12 litre petrol tanks Chuck. Like a car a motorcycle ride where you are planning fuel stops is a PITA and not fun. I regularly do 900klm plus trips and the last thing I want to be even considering is where the next fuel stop is and when I do get there I'm fuelled up and out of the place asap. I fuel the car and the wife buys the coffees and pays the bill and we're gone. If we want a break it will be at a Cafe of our choice on route and not some horrid fuel stop fast food catastrophe complete with screaming kids and frustrated frazzled parents. Don't want to be there any longer than absolutely necessary. BTW it's the same everywhere in the world, Italy road stops are just as horrible.

Truth is I'm not opposed to EV's per sei I'm opposed to having them forced upon me whether I like it or not under spurious claims about saving the planet and how they really are so practical. 

Phil

Edited Sunday at 08:39 PM by Lucky Phil

[Lucky Phil]

An unhappy Tesla owner and a comment on whatever generation she belongs to. Funny and sad at the same time. I didn't go looking for this honestly. It was posted on a car forum in the Funny and laughs section.

 

Edited Sunday at 09:04 PM by Lucky Phil

[Joe]

2 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

Reminds me of the argument Harley Sportster or Indian FTR owners use for their 12 litre petrol tanks Chuck. Like a car a motorcycle ride where you are planning fuel stops is a PITA and not fun. I regularly do 900klm plus trips and the last thing I want to be even considering is where the next fuel stop is and when I do get there I'm fuelled up and out of the place asap. I fuel the car and the wife buys the coffees and pays the bill and we're gone. If we want a break it will be at a Cafe of our choice on route and not some horrid fuel stop fast food catastrophe complete with screaming kids and frustrated frazzled parents. Don't want to be there any longer than absolutely necessary. BTW it's the same everywhere in the world, Italy road stops are just as horrible.

Truth is I'm not opposed to EV's per sei I'm opposed to having them forced upon me whether I like it or not under spurious claims about saving the planet and how they really are so practical. 

Phil

Nice, I agree buy what you want no rules. I’m in the elevator industry that uses AC regen drives. Traction elevator is counter weighted 40% capacity, so an empty car up produces power back to the line.  EV’s to me are about technology not saving the world or the whales, whatever. So you don’t have to be a Green Peace member for ownership. I’ve been to the Indian Pow Wow Maggie Valley, rode buddies FTR’s. Its an American made lead sled, too heavy for out right sport bike work but V-twin sounds awesome, it’s a hooligan ride, not a tourer.

On another note Lucky Phil, you and DucatiGuzziIndian inspire me to find a V11Sport Greenie. 

 

 

[gstallons]

2 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

An unhappy Tesla owner and a comment on whatever generation she belongs to. Funny and sad at the same time. I didn't go looking for this honestly. It was posted on a car forum in the Funny and laughs section.

 

That was funny .  I think she went out and bought another Toyota or something . IDK what she has done w/the Tesla . I feel sorry for the man or woman that marries her !

[audiomick]

3 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

An unhappy Tesla owner...

I didn't even make it to the end of that one. The woman is, plain and simple, a fucking idiot.