Joe Caruso timing gears

[Weegie]

These look great Phil

I'd love to have a set in the Australia, but I don't think I could justify the cost and the not inconsiderabel hassle of pulling the Australia to pieces to install them

Is that the modded Service Shaft (as Guzzi call it) cut down similar to the MGS-01................Nice, going to be one helluva engine.

Large slice of green cheese for Weegie

[Lucky Phil]

30 minutes ago, Weegie said:

These look great Phil

I'd love to have a set in the Australia, but I don't think I could justify the cost and the not inconsiderabel hassle of pulling the Australia to pieces to install them

Is that the modded Service Shaft (as Guzzi call it) cut down similar to the MGS-01................Nice, going to be one helluva engine.

Large slice of green cheese for Weegie

Yes John it's actually an MGS-01 shaft which is just a std jackshaft cut down and machined to accept a 6005 roller bearing for the front case instead of the plain bearing running in the case. I seriously might just remove the rear jackshaft bearing and run the std front plain bearing in the case. The roller is good for friction but you lose the internal oil feed to the heads. I can see no reason at all Guzzi didn't do this on production engines. The rear jackshaft bearing on an 8 valver does no support that I can see and just adds friction and another oil loss path.

Phil 

[Guzzi-in-Vancouver]

PM sent

[pete roper]

The problem with a lot of gear sets that have been, and in some cases still are, offered for the venerable 2V motor is that they are utter shite. Shite material, shite production, shite tooth form or a combination of any or all of the above.

Twenty years ago I ended up being abused and sometimes physically threatened by people who swore by the wretched things .  I was told all sorts of guff, the funniest being that I had ‘Installed them wrong’! It’s three wheels on sticks! How hard can it be???

There were various commonly available types. Full alloy sets, sometimes made of Ergal, which is a particularly tough form of aluminium alloy, but often just seemingly any old cheesy junk. Then there were alloy/steel composite sets with a steel crank gear and aluminium oil pump and cam gears and finally a set with a nylon crank gear and aluminium pump and cam gears.

Now ‘Back in the day’ I too was a dyed in the wool ‘Gears are best’ person and indeed, if made correctly from the correct materials, they really are. I spent several years exploring the different options but unlike many of the ‘True Believers’ I didn’t just fling them in and forget about them. I’d put them in and then regularly reopen and examine them for wear and damage.

What I found was very disturbing. They ALL started failing almost immediately! Even when I tried modifying the timing chest so that the pump gear ran in an oil bath to assist in lubrication of the teeth they all failed. I actually have a ‘Rogues Gallery’ of a few failed sets of different types in my Flickr gallery, these include some pics taken by Joe Caruso of similarly buggered sets he’s removed. These include some of the Ergal sets made by Agostinis that some of the more wild-eyed swear by! I have terrible trouble getting pics to post on V11 LeMans.com but I can probably send a link to the gallery if anyone is interested?

The end result is I refused to install them. They were and are, engine wreckers. No ifs or buts! This doesn’t mean I don’t think gears are ‘The Best’ solution. Simply that these comparatively cheap commercial sets aren’t it! FWIW back in the ‘70’s and ‘80’s you used to be able to buy helically cut steel gears with quite a fine tooth pitch. I shelled out for a set of these way back when and they were brilliant. I clocked up an astonishing distance with them in my ‘Primary’ bike and used them in my short stroke hot-rod. While the helical cut meant they would sap a bit of power it also gave you the advantage you could shim the cam gear to finesse the cam timing to a ridiculous degree and with the cams I was playing with every bit helped! I ended up giving them to a bloke called Steve Harney, (I think?) who was racing at the same time as Rob Johnson and I were in the early 2000’s. I’ve no idea where they are now!

These weren’t common, have long been unavailable but if you want gears Joe’s are certainly the only ones I’d be bothered with. For most everyday riders though keeping the chain and running a Valtech blade type tensioner is perfectly adequate. A new chain and tensioner will probably be required every 140-150,000 Km in normal use. If you throw a new set at your engine at 100,000 your sprockets will probably last until the sun shrinks to become a white dwarf so longevity isn’t really an issue! The cost is also paltry compared to Joe’s gears.

So really, it’s down to choice really, and the depth of your pockets and how obsessive you are. As for the noise? I love the noise!

[p6x]

18 hours ago, pete roper said:

Shite material, shite production, shite tooth form or a combination of any or all of the above.

When I did my final exam to become a mechanical engineer, they gave us a blueprint, and we had to select the type of material, thermal treatment, tolerances, together with a slue of other technical and economical parameters.

But this was old school.

Today, they have software that can tell you all that without you needing any specific knowledge. It is no longer seek and error like it was when Carcano decided to put together that V8.

And sooner than later, AI will be able to diagnose everything without requiring any help from a human being. Each of the big Tech companies is working hard to get their AI model the best. ChatGPT, Meta, X, Amazon, Apple, Google.

Of course, you will still need a pair of hands to hold the wrenches.

[Eamonn]

Hi Gents, They're sold now. I didn't think that they'd last long on the market. LP, the noise is just the normal noise from straight cut gears meshing, you can't hear it at all when riding, only on tickover, & even then it's fairly quiet, as you mentioned in an earlier post. The issue is just me being pedantic, some people love the mechanical whine or the clatter of a Ducati dry clutch, 'nothing wrong with that, I'm just not that way inclined. As far as the gears are concerned, the quality of manufacture is outstanding & the precision is first class.

 

[gstallons]

There are some noises that NEED to be there . Mechanical lifters , clutch sounds ( lever pulled in or released) , straight cut gears , etc. If you know what you are hearing . Wow ! If it is making expensive sounds , not wow . 

Edited 19 hours ago by gstallons