Winter Project - My New to Me Sad Neglected LeMans

[Lucky Phil]

38 minutes ago, Steve Swan said:

an update with a couple pics. have removed more parts. i have decided my approach will be a combination preservation/conservation and not a restoration of which i've been down that road so many times i've grown tired of the effort it takes (and$$$$$$$$). What marks show on this project are going to be a testimony to what has happened to the bike.  I plan to cut all the zip ties and remove fasteners holding parts to the frame, and apply soap and water from a bucket to wash things clean and dry things off with rags. and then i'll do as little rattle can as i can get away with.  Rusted fasteners i will run through a stiff wire wheel to get to bare steel and then i will Parkerize for a durable grayish/black finish.

A couple questions about the drive shaft. Is the shaft two parts, connected by male and female halves that slide back and forth with movement of the swing arm? I guess i should look at my parts book and service manual... obviously there's a telescoping tube and i imagine there's a bunch of crud hidden where i can't see. Not knowing otherwise, is it necessary to disconnect the drive shaft from the transmission case and the rear end?  Again, i guess i should refer to me service manual... And, finally, is the shaft is "timed," do i need to make note of alignment of the two halves in which they separate?

On to the swing arm rotational surfaces...  i can't imagine i shouldn't pull the shaft, clean up whatever crud and old factory grease is in there?

i'll try to make this as entertaining as i can, and thanks in advance for your help.

Yes it's extremely important you keep the shaft in alignment on the splines. You can separate without removing the front half and you can actually see the original alignment paint mark on the front half of the shaft assy. 

[MartyNZ]

11 minutes ago, Lucky Phil said:

Yes it's extremely important you keep the shaft in alignment on the splines. You can separate without removing the front half and you can actually see the original alignment paint mark on the front half of the shaft assy. 

Here's the picture to go with Phil's comment. 

[MotoKnee]

1 hour ago, Steve Swan said:

 

A couple questions about the drive shaft. Is the shaft two parts, connected by male and female halves that slide back and forth with movement of the swing arm? I guess i should look at my parts book and service manual... obviously there's a telescoping tube and i imagine there's a bunch of crud hidden where i can't see. Not knowing otherwise, is it necessary to disconnect the drive shaft from the transmission case and the rear end?  Again, i guess i should refer to me service manual... And, finally, is the shaft is "timed," do i need to make note of alignment of the two halves in which they separate?

 

Just put mine back together, definitely needed some attention.

With one of the reaction rod bolts removed, the rear portion pulls off without removing the front from trans.

You may need to replace the shaft oring, I just happened to have one laying around.

Also had to replace the u-joint yoke pinch bolts as both ends were lose enough to slide on the splines.

 

[docc]

10 hours ago, Steve Swan said:

Notably absent from the array:

 

[audiomick]

My '02 Le Mans hasn't had as hard a time as yours, but it obviously has had a bit of a hard life. When I went into the back end about a year ago, I pulled everything off, wheel out, swing-arm off, torque rod off, shaft off and disassembled on the bench, to have a good look at it all. Turned out to be a good idea. I'd suggest you do the same. You might find some "interesting" things, like I did.

While your in there, I'd strongly suggest obtaining and mounting the clutch bleeder extension that was standard on later models like the Griso.

Part #12 here

https://www.stein-dinse.biz/etkataloge/etkataloge.php?l=de&m=210&t=5005&c=Z

This:

https://www.stein-dinse.com/en/search-1-05606630-.html

 

Get the bolt and seals as well, you need them. Part #8 and #9.

It is not exactly cheap, but makes bleeding the clutch a very simple task instead of a complete pain in the arse. Given that you are in there anyway, and no doubt will be changing the clutch fluid anyway, it seems the ideal time to bolt the thing in there while you're at it.

[Scud]

Since you're in this deep, it's a good time pull the swingarm, which will make it even easier to install the above bleeder hose. 

Be sure to carefully inspect the shock mounts. Many of us have found cracks in the lower shock mount. Even if it's not cracked, upgrading that shock will make a big difference in handling - if that's in scope/budget for this project.

[Steve Swan]

Thank you gentlemen for your replies. Yes, will continue this deep dive and THANK YOU for informing me what to look for. i have the rear driveshaft separated from the diff. Do i remove the side plate to remove the front half of driveshaft? Otherwise, i shall remove the swing arm and of course the front half of shaft will come out.

for the moment, a couple questions.

1. Looking in the parts book at driveshaft, i don't see the thin O-ring listed.  Is there a pn for this?  Purchase where? We have a Guzzi dealer in town.

2. This morning when i was surveying the carnage, i noted this 12x21x27 spacer on the lift.  I don't remember for the life of me removing it from anywhere... (i AM a sharp 73 year old). Where does this spacer fit? Pic attached.

[Scud]

Leave the silver side plates in place. To remove the swingarm, you first disconnect the shock, then remove the large chrome nuts (30mm IIRC). Then, with the swingarm supported, you can back the pins out with a hex wrench.

The spacer looks like the one that goes on the rear axle, between the rear wheel bearing and the drive box. It sometimes falls out unexpectedly when you remove the rear wheel. Totally normal.

[audiomick]

2 minutes ago, Scud said:

... the large chrome nuts (30mm IIRC). ...

Bear in mind, those are only lock nuts. They don't hold the wheels on. When you do them back up again, they only have to be tight enough to hold the pins in place. More relevant is how far the pins are screwed in, as that determines the alignment of the swingarm. The recommendation that I have often seen is to remove the lock nuts, and measure how long the bit of the pin is that is sticking out. Aim for that when you put them back in, and the swing-arm should end up back where it belongs.

[gstallons]

For now back off the large nut one revolution , Remove the "bolt and leave the r.h. stuff on the r.h. side and the same for the left side.  There is a procedure to get the rear wheel track in the center of the front. When you get it together , we will discuss it .

[Steve Swan]

Gentlemen, thank you.  The old Coats 220 gave me a bit of a workout removing the rear tire.  I'll get the front tire m&b then back on forks so i can get the weight off center stand and then i can proceed further dismantling on the rear end of this old gal.

Edited Monday at 02:59 AM by Steve Swan

[audiomick]

5 hours ago, gstallons said:

...There is a procedure to get the rear wheel track in the center of the front. ...

I'd be interested in that myself. I'll keep an eye on this thread for when it comes up.

[audiomick]

Since no-one has published a list,or at least I haven't noticed it, here is a list of the things I have read about (mostly here) that one should look for:

The front bolt of the torque arm is prone to being unlubricated and accordingly in poor condition.

The pinch bolts on the drive shaft are prone to having been abused.

There is a roller bearing on the outward side of the bevel drive that needs to be looked at and greased.

The spacer in the wheel between the bearings is apparently not always exactly the right length. If it is wrong, the bearings don't live long. The one in mine was completely wrong, maybe 5 mm too short, and had been spaced out with a hand cut bit of pipe. The bearings were shot, of course, but I think someone had buggered around with it and got it wrong. Anyway, it is something to have a look at.

The bottom mount on the shock has been mentioned.

Getting grease into the front grease nipple on the drive shaft is an art unto itself, and reams have been written on the way to solve the problem. The easiest way is to pull the shaft out and do it on the bench. A clever combination of grease gun and grease gun fitting and lots of practice can also achieve the goal in situ, allegedly.

While it is all apart, look at the battery minus connection to the back of the gear-box. Cleaning it can't hurt.

 

I think there was something else, but I can't think of it right now. Maybe someone else will chime in.

[gstallons]

Well , it involves fluorescent light bulbs string and some imagination . I got my two bikes tracking ( the rear wheel in the same track as the front) perfect after dismantling the swingarm . I will have to remember what I did and how . It sounds Rube Goldberg  but after the epiphany it gets easy .

[docc]

Just now, gstallons said:

Well , it involves fluorescent light bulbs string and some imagination . I got my two bikes tracking ( the rear wheel in the same track as the front) perfect after dismantling the swingarm . I will have to remember what I did and how . It sounds Rube Goldberg  but after the epiphany it gets easy .

I used a laser for that purpose and found the swingarm within thousandths of being centered in the Frame Side Plates. I would, now, put hat offset down to method accuracy limitations.

One South'n Spine Raid,  we measured the offset of all the SpineFrames present (six or eight, I suppose) and found the settings all over the place. I settled on "centered" with the pins backed of just a touch from bottoming so as to not deflect the bearings laterally.

YMMV