Low beam trouble…

[audiomick]

43 minutes ago, Tennitragic said:

... the Green/grey wire from headlight connector travels through a relay where power confirmed going in but not out. The brown wire travels through the other relay ...

Ok, I've had another look at the wiring diagram, and I think it contradicts itself.

Obviously, the cryptic letters next to the wires in the diagram are the abbreviation of the colours of the wires in Italian. With the help of deepl.com, this is what I get  by following the wires, and referring to the numbers next to the headlight symbols and the legend.

Quote

M = marrone = brown = low beam

VE-GR = verde grigio = green grey = high beam

1 High beam 60 W (1+3 H4 halogen)
2 Dipped light
3 Low beam 55 W (1+3 H4 halogen)

But:

you wrote

43 minutes ago, Tennitragic said:

the Green/grey wire from headlight connector travels through a relay where power confirmed going in but not out

and

the wiring diagram shows that the brown wire also feeds a tell-tale in the dashboard. That must be the high-beam indicator. There isn't a light on the dash showing that low-beam is on.

and

the wiring diagram shows that the "Lo" position of the headlight switch feeds the green/grey wire, and the "High" position and the "Pass" switch the brown wire

So

 

I think you are on the right track, and that the legend of the wiring diagram is wrong. The "1" and the "3" next to the symbols for the headlight are apparently swapped. The brown wire originally fed power to the high-beam, the green/grey to the low beam.

That whoever did the modification used the original power feed for the lights to switch a relay that feeds through power directly from the battery is fairly standard practice, I gather.

So, it sounds like you might just have a broken relay.

Change the relay that the green/grey wire is going through. Or better still, swap the relays and see if the low-beam then works, and the high beam doesn't.

Put a label on all the wires before you unplug anything!!!

If the low beam works with the relay from the high beam, then you know for sure that the relay is the problem.

I still can't figure out why the low beam goes on with the ignition off, but maybe the relay has just shit itself in a major fashion and is doing weird stuff.

Edited February 10 by audiomick

[audiomick]

And another thing. This is all very hypothetical, so don't just take it as granted.

Getting back to the two green wires, one on battery plus and one on battery minus.

Given that it seems that whoever did the mods to the wiring did it all fairly conventionally, it remains a mystery why one green wire is plus, and the other is minus. According to convention (as I know it...) green is usually used for "earth" (or yellow/green). Assuming the man was following convention, that would indicate that both green wires should be on the minus pole of the battery.

So if we assume that the green wires on the battery are the same green wires on the relays, and that they are connected to 85/86 on the relays, and that the green wire on battery plus is actually intended to be the "earth" for the switching side of the relay that should be switching on the low beam, i.e. the way back to the battery from the green/grey wire on the relay, and therefore should actually be on battery minus

then, when the ignition is on and the light switch is on "low beam", the switching side of the relay will be "seeing" 12V at both ends of the coil (because the green wire is on plus instead of minus), and therefore wont pull in and switch on the low beam.

If we further assume that there is a really grotty connection somewhere along the path of the green/grey wire up to the relay, then it might be possible that enough current leak is happening (from the connector to the frame or engine/gearbox case, somwhow) to pull in the relay when the ignition is off and activate the relay and turn on the low beam. (12 V through the green wire from battery plus to the switching side of the relay, and back to the battery through the shitty connection, somehow)

As I said, pure speculation, but maybe the relay is ok (test it as described above) and you have one or several bad (really dirty) connections.

Which brings us back to the point, regardless of how the relay checks out: check and clean all the connections. And trace all the wires back and make a diagramm.

 

And don't just swap wires around on spec. Follow the wires and understand what is supposed to be happening first. Shorting the battery is not a good idea.

Edited February 10 by audiomick

[Tennitragic]

Many thanks again audiomick…I was hoping someone would say on the wiring diagram 1 and 3 look to be reversed…! nothing was making sense if green/grey were for high beam with only a high beam light on the dash!
Yes, good tip…..will label the wires to each relay when swapping/replacing and let you guys know more in a few hours…

[Tennitragic]

Sorry, had to abandon the relay swap as my garage became a mosquito haven this afternoon-humid, crazy weather in Sydney today.

On to it again tomorrow…

And haven’t forgotten the 3 Tenor’s (Tenni’s) photo request footgoose….when the eldest is behaving himself again!!!

[po18guy]

1 hour ago, Tennitragic said:

Sorry, had to abandon the relay swap as my garage became a mosquito haven this afternoon-humid, crazy weather in Sydney today.

On to it again tomorrow…

And haven’t forgotten the 3 Tenor’s (Tenni’s) photo request footgoose….when the eldest is behaving himself again!!!

Got a 2-stroker? You'll have those bugs fleeing quick sticks!

[gstallons]

So , you got the bike in this "condition" ?

[Tennitragic]

A new day and down to the garage I went….! 
Firstly, wiring is how the bike came to me. Too timid to do any wiring upgrades….! Learning on the job…..the old adage of “a little knowledge is dangerous” still applies to me electrically!
Only got so far today as had to put the Battery back on charge. Showing <10 volts.  Battery was showing 13 volts when I stated this task.

However, did manage one task, begin to swap the relay wires to see if one of these added relays is the culprit.
As shown in the photo, noticed if I swapped pin 86 wires on each relay, low beam began working correctly with ignition on and switches in correct positions! 
But…. high beam was then permanently on with ignition off! And handlebar switches had no impact - still on. Turn ignition on and high beam could not be activated. Dash high beam light worked though….
Does any of this added information shed any more light? Pun intended….! 

Overnight I did look up ‘relays’ on the forum and found a 2011 post from kiwiRoy about adding a headlight relay with diagram included….perhaps this post was the instigation for a previous owner of my Tenni?

Regards, tennitragic.

[docc]

Put the 86 back where it was on the High Beam relay and leave the Low Beam 86 where you moved it that restored Low Bean function . . .

 

[Tennitragic]

Thanks docc….battery charging up right now but will give this a go….I did put the relay wiring exactly back ‘as delivered’  so I have a base to work from….again assuming the mods were good from previous owners…

[docc]

1 hour ago, Tennitragic said:

 . . . if I swapped pin 86 wires on each relay, low beam began working correctly with ignition on and switches in correct positions! 

But…. high beam was then permanently on with ignition off!

 

This   ^  ^  ^

[Tennitragic]

Just to add while battery charging and hopefully narrow down the problem…in the photo, the loose connection was originally from pin 86 low beam relay, as soon as connection was made to pin 86 on high beam relay, high beam lit with ignition off/key removed.

[Tennitragic]

Sorry to provide a running commentary today….another bizarre symptom appeared….swapping the relay wires at pin 86 again, high beam lights up without ignition again. Turn ignition on, headlight switch at position 2 and red button on low beam, both beams illuminate…ie different than earlier today. But pressing the headlight flasher both beams extinguish! Release and both beams come on again! Are the relays doing strange things? Thinking I better wait until new relays arrive….I can do some cleaning in the interim….

[gstallons]

Swapping the wires at pin 86 and what ?  Pins 86 and 85 normally consist of a ground and a switched ign.voltage . This controls the coil to energize the relay .

 Pressing the headlight flasher , as in "flash to pass" ?

Edited February 11 by gstallons
spelling error

[Tennitragic]

Hi gstallons. Sorry for the delay in responding to you… trying to learn on the job. Nothing else tampered with in above scenario - swapped pin 86 relay wires with ignition off and wanted to pass on the results in that high beam permanently on whichever handlebar switch is activated/pressed. With ignition on, switches correct positions, low beam also on.

Flash to pass..correct..I read should light up both beams yet in the swapped wire position, with ignition on, this action extinguished both beams. 
New test….Ignition on, with a charged battery, swapping all relay wires…high beam only lights up correctly via low/high beam red button and position 2 on handlebar switch. 
Ignition off, pressing low/high beam red button, low beam does flicker. All else dead. I am getting confused so appreciate you fellows may be from my findings!
Might be time for me to take it to the Guzzi Sydney workshop I use…our State will require a VIN and safety check for the road anyway - they can have a go at this baffling (to me…) main light issue at the same time. Regards,  tennitragic

[gstallons]

You say you "swapped pin 86 relay wires" there are two wires involved ? true. Which two wires are you swapping ? The wires / colors , are they factory color and factory wiring .  We can't help you w/o complete info. It looks like there are two relays that are in this system . are the both the same where the relay has two 87 pins ?

Edited February 11 by gstallons