Low beam trouble…

[Tennitragic]

This latest niggle has me perplexed…my Tenni’s original headlight was a bit rusty and reflector scratched. Pilot light and high beam fine but low beam was not lighting.
Replaced bulb - no low beam. New headlight arrived - no low beam.
Checking left handlebar switch block as possible culprit, the horn button, indicators, passing switch all working. Flicking the light switch, position 1 pilot light fine, position 2 high beam only. Could the problem be the red high/low beam button?

And here I thought was the fun part…with no key inserted/ignition off, low beam works when the light switch is moved to position 2, but nothing else is ‘live’!

Any ideas or hints? Thanks.

[Chuck]

I still haven't had my second cup of coffee and definitely haven't looked at the schematic yet, but why isn't it the ignition switch?

[footgoose]

I can't help with the problem but, a photo of the Three Tenni's together would be fun. I've wondered how similar the greens are.

 

[audiomick]

8 hours ago, Tennitragic said:

 Could the problem be the red high/low beam button?

Yes. It is involved in the switching of the lights, so it could be the cause of the problem. Don't exclude anything as the cause of your problem until you know for sure it is not.  

8 hours ago, Tennitragic said:

…with no key inserted/ignition off, low beam works when the light switch is moved to position 2, but nothing else is ‘live’!

That kind of weird bollocks is sometimes due to a bad "earth" connection somewhere. The volts can't get through the circuit they are supposed to be taking and find a way somewhere else, sometimes even apparently "upstream".

I think you might be going to have to look at the wiring diagrans (or manually trace the wires) and systematically check all the connections, switches, relays, whatever involved in the lighting circuit. And as already implied, don't forget to check the circuits all the way back to the battery, i.e. also on the "earth" side.

Edited Thursday at 04:16 PM by audiomick

[GuzziMoto]

It could be a variety of things. I would go over the bikes lights thoroughly, as you may find that other lights are also not working, for example check that not only does your tail light work but also that your brake light works, and that can mean the issue is in a different location. Everything from the headlight switch, to the ignition switch, to the relays that control power to all the various circuits, including power to the headlight (that is why the headlight goes out when cranking the engine with the starter).

You can check to see if there is power at various points in the wiring to the low beam. I am pretty sure, but not looking at a schematic, that power for the high beam and power for the low beam come from different sources. So it is possible for the high beam to work and not the low beam. But again, I am only going off memory, and I am getting old.

Edited Thursday at 03:54 PM by GuzziMoto

[docc]

9 hours ago, Tennitragic said:

 

…with no key inserted/ignition off, low beam works when the light switch is moved to position 2, but nothing else is ‘live’!

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Chuck said:

I still haven't had my second cup of coffee and definitely haven't looked at the schematic yet, but why isn't it the ignition switch?

 

[audiomick]

2 hours ago, GuzziMoto said:

... I am pretty sure, but not looking at a schematic, that power for the high beam and power for the low beam come from different sources....

I don't think they do. I've just spent an hour or so with a printed copy of the wiring diagram and coloured pens, and it looks like both high beam and low beam get their power, switched either-or at the switch block on the handlebar, from the lighting relay. The lighting relay feeds through power from the battery, and is itself switched from the normally closed contact of the relay that switches the starter motor with its normally open contact.

The running lights (parking lights) get their power directly from the ignition switch, in common, but via a seperate fuse, with the blinkers, i.e. from a different source as the headlight itself. That may be the source of your memory.

Edited Thursday at 06:28 PM by audiomick

[GuzziMoto]

2 hours ago, audiomick said:

I don't think they do. I've just spent an hour or so with a printed copy of the wiring diagram and coloured pens, and it looks like both high beam and low beam get their power, switched either-or at the switch block on the handlebar, from the lighting relay. The lighting relay feeds through power from the battery, and is itself switched from the normally closed contact of the relay that switches the starter motor with its normally open contact.

The running lights (parking lights) get their power directly from the ignition switch, in common, but via a seperate fuse, with the blinkers, i.e. from a different source as the headlight itself. That may be the source of your memory.

Perhaps. As I recall, years ago on the wifes V11 when one of her relays was not working right she would get the daytime running light in the headlight lit (which, if you looked at it without really looking you might think the low beam was lit but dim), along with her rear running light. And if she turned on her high beam I believe it would light. But her low beam would not and her brake light would not. It struck me because I was following her for a while being very impressed that she wasn't hitting the brakes at all. Then we realized that some of her lights were not working, including her low beam and her brake light.

It is possible that hers is wired differently to yours. I do not think all V11's share the same wiring. My main suggestion is not exactly what is the cause of the OP's problem but rather look further as they may not realize the extent of what is not working. Beyond that, it may be a matter of tracing the wiring back from the low beam towards the battery looking for where you go from not having voltage to having voltage. The two headlights share a ground, but they differ on the path to them.

Edited Thursday at 08:26 PM by GuzziMoto

[audiomick]

1 hour ago, GuzziMoto said:

...My main suggestion is not exactly what is the cause of the OP's problem but rather look further as they may not realize the extent of what is not working. Beyond that, it may be a matter of tracing the wiring back from the low beam towards the battery looking for where you go from not having voltage to having voltage. The two headlights share a ground, but they differ on the path to them.

Yes. And don't forget, it might be not just one problem. If two different lights are not working, the problem might be common to both, but it might also be, for instance, a bad connection at two different places.

As you say, get out the voltmeter and go looking for where the volts disappear.

[audiomick]

4 hours ago, audiomick said:

 I've just spent an hour or so with a printed copy of the wiring diagram and coloured pens,

For what it is worth, here is the result of that. The wiring diagram is on page 459 of this PDF, according to the document viewer

https://guzzitek.org/gb/ma_us_uk/1100/V11_1999-2003_Atelier(Compil-GB-D-NL).pdf

The legend is on the following page. Here is what I got. Maybe it will help someone.

Edited Thursday at 10:57 PM by audiomick

[Tennitragic]

Many thanks for all these replies…I will go through them properly with my (new!) multimeter in hand over the coming weekend and respond accordingly…

Of note, and as a (part) answer to GuzziMoto is that brake and tail lights are working perfectly (now).
Had to replace the micro switch at the brake lever….one of the 3 pins was loose on the original micro switch causing an intermittent brake light.

[p6x]

@Tennitragic

By the title, I thought you were looking for blue pills....

[Tennitragic]

Well, low beam as a term for impotence….you learn something new everyday….ha/ha!

On to the real problem….! “Power is lost within the Bosch headlight relay” is this electrical novice’s answer so far.

The multimeter showed 13 volts on the green/grey wire on the way in to the relay but registers zero on the relay pin on the way out. Photo 1.

Am I on the right track here?
Recalling the issue was only the low beam is not working with ignition on, headlight switch position 2 (with low beam selected on the red push button).
Strangely low beam comes on when handlebar headlight switch moved to position 2 on but the ignition is off! Photo 3.

Reading/learning on this forum..V11 original relays are a big issue. Here is a photo of the under seat relays…Photo 2. I have not touched these as yet… original thought was that bike was previously owned by more capable people than myself and ‘do not alter anything’. Unless the bike develops a problem ie low beam etc…then work on it/improve.

PS Sorry about the poor photos..all too big apart from these three…a younger family member will need to show me how to reduce and properly attach/send!

[docc]

Certainly a good move to upgrade to the highest quality High Current micro relays available. Not sure what is available in AUS, but here are the two best available most recently (I hope I get these links right the first time):

CIT A11CSQ12VDC1.5R

Picker Components PC782-1C-12S-R-X

That anything would come on with the ignition switch off casts aspersions on the wiring soldered to the switch. It is not that hard to take out and inspect and is also a known fail point on the V11.

[Weegie]

I'd been trying to figure out the rather odd behaviour with the Beams, one working and the other not with ignition on and off and being stumped (but it isn't that difficult to confuse me)

IF I'm looking at the correct diagram then the power for the headlight beams are direct from the switch. The switch gets power from the Headlight Relay, this also feeds to the horn, so the horn should work when the beams do.

Anyway another BIG IF but first pic,

Is it upside down?

Is that the headlamp shell?

What is that relay next to the shell which has a number of spades attached to it?

Could it be that a previous owner has installed a relay mod (makes the beams brighter and takes the load off the switch), by running a feed from the battery? 

If that relay is utilizing the normallly open and normally closed contacts to power the beams from a direct battery feed, then wierd shit may well occur.

The connections to that relay and the fully insulated spade connectors aren't OEM, hence my rather frayed reasoning. I'd also check the connections on these fully insulated spades, anecdotally, I've had rather chequered results with them and they can come loose over time

Otherwise just ignore me, as I could well have totally lost the plot