Oil froth in my rocker covers...

[Molly]

Hi guys. 

What's causing this? I'm just doing a service. The oil I dumped looked ok but the inside of the rocker covers has me concerned. Thanks in advance for your advice. 

[guzzigary]

Looks like “mayo” syndrome, perhaps caused by shorter rides where the oil is not getting up to temperature 
Did you drop the sump to get a look inside?

[Molly]

21 minutes ago, guzzigary said:

Looks like “mayo” syndrome, perhaps caused by shorter rides where the oil is not getting up to temperature 
Did you drop the sump to get a look inside?

Confess, no. It had an oil and filter change when I bought it just 2000 KM ago. I was changing the oil because it's been about eighteen months since then. I don't tend to do short journeys but living in the Isle of Man perhaps my journeys are in fact short. 

[Lucky Phil]

41 minutes ago, Molly said:

Confess, no. It had an oil and filter change when I bought it just 2000 KM ago. I was changing the oil because it's been about eighteen months since then. I don't tend to do short journeys but living in the Isle of Man perhaps my journeys are in fact short. 

Cool climate and short trips with a high ratio of cold starts to miles ridden is your issue. Buy an oil dipstick temp gauge and monitor what your oil temps are during your normal riding regime. You may need to cover the oil cooler to get the oil temp up and burn off the water the oil accumulates in your riding situation. You do need to get this under control or it will wreck your engine eventually.

In your climate i'd imagine anything less than a spirited 50klm ride and you'll be getting this issue.

Phil  

[pete roper]

Yup, it’s just mayonnaise. Especially in cooler, damper climates as the engine heat cycles between runnng and not as it cools the water in the gas inside the crankcase, of which there will be a fair bit as water is one of the main y-products of combustion and there is always some blow by past the rings, will condense out on the inside of the cases. As the rocker covers always tend to run cool and are at the top of the motor this is where a lot of the water ends up. It combines with the oil droplets as it condenses and voila! The disgusting looking but essentially harmless mayonnaise.

The answer to preventing it is getting the oil hotter. Once the oil temperature and internal temperature of the engine gets above about 90*C the the water will sublime out of the oil and off the internals of the engine and will over time be expelled through the breather system and rebreathed through the combustion chambers and expelled in the exhaust.

No big block Guzzi begins to get even remotely warm enough to do this in winter unless you are doing motorway speeds for over twenty miles at least. Something I’d think it would be unlikely you’d be doing on the IOM, especially in winter! At least the V11’s have the advantage of having a thermostat in the oil cooler circuit which will help bump up the oil temperature a bit in cool weather. The 8V engines have a separate cooling circuit independent of the lubrication circuit and it directs the oil through the cooler unregulated. This means that any time the ambient temperature is under about 20-23*C it is damn near impossible to get the oil temp above 100*C which is where you want it unless you thrash the bastard mercilessly everywhere in 4th gear @ 6,000+RPM! Some of us owners have fitted external thermostats to our bikes, others, like me, who can’t be arsed, just tape off the cooler in the cooler months!

Finding that nasty crap in the rocker covers is disconcerting the first time you see it and it is preferable that it not be there but it is what it is. Some oils are more prone to forming mayonnaise as well. Castrol has always been worse than many others and it’s one of the reasons I try to avoid it, but a damn good thrashing from time to time is the best medicine!

Also, if you are riding in the wet at all make sure you put some sort of ‘Spray flap’ in the triangle of the swingarm cantilever or you’ll find your gearbox full of water as the stupid breather is right in line with the rear tyre.

Mornin Phil!

[Pressureangle]

^^ this

Full synthetic oils are less prone to this as well. I remember  back in the 1970s, Pennzoil brand was particularly bad for this; Pennsylvania crude oil is high in paraffin, and the wax emulsified with the water easier than non-paraffin crude extracts. The advent of synthetic oils put most of it to rest. So if you're using dinosaur dookie, try synthetic at the next change.
 

[Molly]

Thanks chaps. Appreciate you taking the time to compose those replies. 

I should investigate my bike's plumbing a bit more. When I drained the oil I noticed only one oil line next to the drain plug, whereas the illustration showed two (one either side of the drain plug). On my bike, one is blanked-off. Might be unrelated to oil temperature but I was curious about it. 

Thanks again.

Edited 10 hours ago by Molly

[Lucky Phil]

A major additional factor is Ethanol fuels. Ethanol is hydroscopic and any fuel dilution of the oil which happens with short ride/multi cold start cycle engines attracts additional water in the oil. People that run their engines on E85 have a major issue with this even with ultra short interval oil changes. 

 

[Molly]

3 hours ago, Lucky Phil said:

A major additional factor is Ethanol fuels. Ethanol is hydroscopic and any fuel dilution of the oil which happens with short ride/multi cold start cycle engines attracts additional water in the oil. People that run their engines on E85 have a major issue with this even with ultra short interval oil changes. 

 

Fortunately our fuel doesn't contain ethanol. Some fortunate quirk of Island life. 

[MartyNZ]

6 hours ago, pete roper said:

...Also, if you are riding in the wet at all make sure you put some sort of ‘Spray flap’ in the triangle of the swingarm cantilever or you’ll find your gearbox full of water as the stupid breather is right in line with the rear tyre...

@cash1000 and I put a remote breather on our gearboxes for just that reason. See pictures:

A spray flap is a good idea too.

https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/topic/31139-transmission-problem-shift-bendix-any-ideas/page/2/#findComment-299737

Edited 5 hours ago by MartyNZ

[MartyNZ]

4 hours ago, Molly said:

Thanks chaps. Appreciate you taking the time to compose those replies. 

I should investigate my bike's plumbing a bit more. When I drained the oil I noticed only one oil line next to the drain plug, whereas the illustration showed two (one either side of the drain plug). On my bike, one is blanked-off. Might be unrelated to oil temperature but I was curious about it. 

Thanks again.

You are not the first person to ask that question.  See: https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/topic/22336-what-is-the-extra-sump-plug-for/#comment-256978

[po18guy]

9 hours ago, Molly said:

Confess, no. It had an oil and filter change when I bought it just 2000 KM ago. I was changing the oil because it's been about eighteen months since then. I don't tend to do short journeys but living in the Isle of Man perhaps my journeys are in fact short. 

Looks just like the valve covers of an air-cooled VW used for short drives. Allow time to make the full Isle circuit and you should be fine.

[Molly]

2 hours ago, MartyNZ said:

@cash1000 and I put a remote breather on our gearboxes for just that reason. See pictures:

A spray flap is a good idea too.

https://www.v11lemans.com/forums/topic/31139-transmission-problem-shift-bendix-any-ideas/page/2/#findComment-299737

Thanks Marty. Heading back to Methven come August (all being well). Will shout you a beer. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Molly