Info about original equipment.

[audiomick]

Hallo.

As has been mentioned here once or twice, I'm not convinced that my 2002 V11 Le Mans is completely original. For instance, maybe the front end has been swapped, maybe not.

I found this site:

https://service.piaggiogroup.com/Vintage/richdetail.asp?L=EN=Guzzi

but it is not immediately obvious to me which document would contain the information I am looking for. As far as I know, one of them lists the original equipment. Does anyone happen to know which one?

Since the documents aren't exactly cheap, I'd kind of like to get the right one the first time...

[gstallons]

What exactly are you trying to find out ? The front end can mean anything past the frame. Steering head , triple trees , forks , wheel , brakes , whatever . I know the forks on some bikes are the black Marzocchi and some use the gold Ohlins.  

[audiomick]

1 hour ago, gstallons said:

What exactly are you trying to find out ? The front end can mean anything ...

It's a Le Mans, so clip-ons are original. The upper triple-clamp has holes for the mounts for a "normal" handlebar, so not original. An aquaintance happened to have a photo of the bike from some time before I bought it showing it with handlebars mounted instead of the clip-ons. In the course of discussions here, I have gained the impression that the 43mm forks with compression damping in both legs are maybe a little unusual for a 2002 Le Mans, so maybe not original. In conjunction with that, the front axle is the larger diameter hollow axle from later models. Knowledgable members here showed some surprise when I mentioned that, so maybe also not original. The last two points point to maybe the whole front end having been swapped for a later version. If that is the case, did it have a bingle at some point?

I'm just curious what the bike was fitted with when it was delivered. Maybe it is a parts-bin special from the factory, maybe someone has modified it, maybe not. As I said, I'm curious. Not that I'd be about to change the forks back if it turned out that the 40mm forks were originally fitted. I'd just like to know.

PS: the side plates are dark grey. Every photo I have found on the 'net of bikes with a similar colour scheme have shown red side plates.

[gstallons]

Yeah , you have something extraordinary . google pics from M/G sales brochures for a lot less $$$ . Can you post the last 8 characters of the VIN ? 

 Can you post pics of the top of the  forks , pork chops , clip-ons , etc. I assume yours has a black foam insert in front of the fuel cap to prove it is a external fuel pump .

[po18guy]

Lacking a crash, the later forks/brakes are actually a decent upgrade. Any way to trace ownership back and speak with the prior owners? That name or names might be in any paperwork which came with the bike. 

[audiomick]

41 minutes ago, gstallons said:

... Can you post the last 8 characters of the VIN ? 

 Can you post pics of ...

... to prove it is a external fuel pump .

I've got some pictures in the gallery. I'll put them in. The fuel pump is in the (long) tank.

1 minute ago, po18guy said:

Lacking a crash, the later forks/brakes are actually a decent upgrade. Any way to trace ownership back ...

Yes, I know the later forks are better, and am happy to have them. The papers I have go back to the original owner, in total 4 owners prior to me. The one before me I know personally, but he only had the bike for a year or so. Contacting any of the others would mean sending them a letter to the listed address "out of the blue", which may or may not achieve anything.

The VIN is

ZGUKTA0102M111456

Here are some pictures. The third one shows the top triple-clamp and the head of one fork. The head of the other fork is identical to that.

[audiomick]

I had already started a thread about the originality or not of the bike. It is here, but nothing absolutely conclusive came out of it.

As you all can see, the topic is leaving me no peace...

 

@docc it occurs to me now, too late, that I could have hung this on the end of that other thread instead of starting a new one. Feel free to merge them if you wish.

Edited 19 hours ago by audiomick

[docc]

So, the VIN refutes my theory that it was late production 2002 and may have benefited from some 2003 "transition" parts as this is #346 built for the 2002 model year.  (First V11 of each model year = 111111

edit: Nothing wrong with the new thread, but good to have them linked for cross refeisdictionsrence.

* I share your curiosity. While we will likely never know, it is a fun exercise to ponder. I considered that a PO may have wanted handlebars (many have gone this route over the clip-ons) and, perhaps the fork upgrade. Yet, there are is also the later Long Tank (along with non-2002 color scheme), the grey side plates, and ITI /hUR instruments. All of this, at odds with the VIN, could suggest an extensive rebuild. In many jurisdictions, this would be notated on the title.

[audiomick]

4 minutes ago, docc said:

... this is #346 built for the 2002 model year.  (First V11 of each model year = 111111

errrmm, #456, I think.

18 minutes ago, audiomick said:

The VIN is

ZGUKTA0102M111456

[docc]

Just now, audiomick said:

errrmm, #456, I think.

I have, very recently, performed some very bad math.

Yet, consider that if #111111 was the first bike, that there was no production through 111110.

111456 - 111110 = 346

 

[gstallons]

First things first . after a couple of days edit your post that has the VIN in it and erase the VIN for your safety. The forks should have a compression adjust on one and a rebound on the other.  IDK if you can install the same forks on these bikes or the internals have been swapped ?

 My 03ish sport naked (I think) has white face gauges , the forks are different , the clip-ons are above the triple trees , The pork chops may be painted . IDK . I can't tell if your fuel tank has a chin pad or not. The white face gauges are supposed to be earlier than your bike's . My bike VIN is ZGUKRAKR6******** Also , IDK if my triple trees are drilled for bar mounts or not ?

Edited 18 hours ago by gstallons

[docc]

7 minutes ago, gstallons said:

First things first . after a couple of days edit your post that has the VIN in it and erase the VIN for your safety. The forks should have a compression adjust on one and a rebound on the other.  IDK if you can install the same forks on these bikes or the internals have been swapped ?

 My 03ish sport naked (I think) has white face gauges , the forks are different , the clip-ons are above the triple trees , The pork chops may be painted . IDK . I can't tell if your fuel tank has a chin pad or not. The white face gauges are supposed to be earlier than your bike's . My bike VIN is ZGUKRAKR6******** Also , IDK if my triple trees are drilled for bar mounts or not ?

10th character is the year. Your "carryover" Sport is a "3", @gstallons?

[audiomick]

13 hours ago, gstallons said:

The forks should have a compression adjust on one and a rebound on the other....

Mine both have compression rebound damping adjustment.

EDIT: Thanks @Lucky Phil for picking up the mistake.

13 hours ago, gstallons said:

My 03ish sport naked (I think) has white face gauges

My gauges are black (ish. more like grey..)

 

12 hours ago, docc said:

I can't tell if your fuel tank has a chin pad or not.

No, it doesn't.

 

13 hours ago, gstallons said:

My bike VIN is ZGUKRAKR6********

What's the next digit after that? The 10th digit is the year of manufacture. Look here:

https://www.mgcn.nl/database/mg-framenummers

Edited 5 hours ago by audiomick

[audiomick]

1 hour ago, docc said:

consider that if #111111 was the first bike, that there was no production through 111110.

111456 - 111110 = 346

 

The penny just dropped. You're right of course.

[gstallons]

Well , it is an official 2003 and it has an internal fuel pump.