V7 rocker arm bridge infancy failure; your thoughts?

[p6x]

I found this video extremely difficult to watch, for multiple reasons, but I am not going to elaborate.

What do you think happened? is the alloy at fault? an issue with the casting process? it could only be a defect, not the result of mechanical fatigue at 500 miles....

 

[Lucky Phil]

Not enough fine detail to determine. You need parts in your hand and some background on the bike and maintenance history to really know.

[pete roper]

This goose is a prime example of why I’m so very glad I’m not in the trade any more.

Yes, the tune and the change in exhaust didn’t cause a casting to fail. How could they? But, at the same time he proves himself to know absolutely nothing about engines, tuning, or modern engine management systems and then is upset when the manufacturer of the machine denies warranty!

Did he not consider such a possibility before embarking on any changes? Does he believe that he should be able to do anything, unsuitable or otherwise, to his machine and if it all falls in a screaming heap somebody else should pick up the pieces? What a bloody Galah! And the pouty, spoilt little boy reaction after it’s fixed! “I don’t like it any more. I’m going to get another toy, I don’t even want to ride it again! Wah! Wah!” F*ck these people! They are one of the main reasons we can’t have nice things!

Look, if I’d sold it and it snapped a casting like that it would obviously be a casting fault. I can’t see how it could be anything else. I would have explained it was just bad luck, (It’s not like they can x-ray every casting for faults!) and slapped a warranty claim in for the rocker carrier, gaskets and anything else needed, perhaps a pushrod? There would have been no need for Piaggio to know about any changes because they would be irrelevant to a failure like this. If I was a dealer and had another model on the floor I probably would have cannibalised the entire rocker assembly off it and got old mate back on the road in an afternoon. Swapping the rocker gear off a smallblock is scarcely brain surgery, you could do it in 3/4’s of an hour max. You don’t even have to take the bloody petrol tank off FFS! Perhaps the reason it all became such a drama was because he’s a pathetic, snivelling, self important ignoramus and cut up rough at the shop? I dunno? It all seemed like a full-on whine-a-thon to me…..

But what would I know……..

[Lucky Phil]

1 hour ago, pete roper said:

This goose is a prime example of why I’m so very glad I’m not in the trade any more.

Yes, the tune and the change in exhaust didn’t cause a casting to fail. How could they? But, at the same time he proves himself to know absolutely nothing about engines, tuning, or modern engine management systems and then is upset when the manufacturer of the machine denies warranty!

Did he not consider such a possibility before embarking on any changes? Does he believe that he should be able to do anything, unsuitable or otherwise, to his machine and if it all falls in a screaming heap somebody else should pick up the pieces? What a bloody Galah! And the pouty, spoilt little boy reaction after it’s fixed! “I don’t like it any more. I’m going to get another toy, I don’t even want to ride it again! Wah! Wah!” F*ck these people! They are one of the main reasons we can’t have nice things!

Look, if I’d sold it and it snapped a casting like that it would obviously be a casting fault. I can’t see how it could be anything else. I would have explained it was just bad luck, (It’s not like they can x-ray every casting for faults!) and slapped a warranty claim in for the rocker carrier, gaskets and anything else needed, perhaps a pushrod? There would have been no need for Piaggio to know about any changes because they would be irrelevant to a failure like this. If I was a dealer and had another model on the floor I probably would have cannibalised the entire rocker assembly off it and got old mate back on the road in an afternoon. Swapping the rocker gear off a smallblock is scarcely brain surgery, you could do it in 3/4’s of an hour max. You don’t even have to take the bloody petrol tank off FFS! Perhaps the reason it all became such a drama was because he’s a pathetic, snivelling, self important ignoramus and cut up rough at the shop? I dunno? It all seemed like a full-on whine-a-thon to me…..

But what would I know……..

I watched about 2min of him and that was enough and I dragged it to the images of the damage. You're probably right in that it was a faulty casting but with an owner like that anything's possible.

Phil

[po18guy]

3 hours ago, p6x said:

I found this video extremely difficult to watch, for multiple reasons, but I am not going to elaborate.

What do you think happened? is the alloy at fault? an issue with the casting process? it could only be a defect, not the result of mechanical fatigue at 500 miles....

 

 

Consumer culture. READ the warranty. Ride it the year, THEN mod it. Piaggio would be nuts to warranty bikes that such wankers have  twaddled with. It's part of growing up, junior....

Edited yesterday at 06:43 AM by po18guy

[p6x]

I have a little bit of experience with foundry, as it was part of my training at school. We did some casts, but with sand molds, not the modern techniques they now have.

I believe those light alloy parts are pressure cast. Even if the entire process is run by computers, a bad batch can always happen.

 

[audiomick]

1 hour ago, p6x said:

 a bad batch can always happen.

 

Or even a single bad part in a good batch.

[p6x]

4 hours ago, audiomick said:

Or even a single bad part in a good batch.

True.

When my company was still manufacturing our logging tools, I visited a machine shop, where all the elaboration was driven by CNC machines. One operator told me the major issues were when something happened and an emergency shutdown occurred. Restarting at a given step, when the piece getting machined is not completed, often leads to discarding it.

The way they test today, is they check parts randomly, not systematically. But the faulty part should have a cast number, and in theory, this should help Piaggio to determine if this could be a recurrent fault.

 

[audiomick]

For want of anything better to do, I just watched that video.

I can only concur with previous opinions: the bloke is a right royal d ickhead.

 

EDIT: I feel it is a pity that it happened to him. Someone who feels obliged to put it on the 'net, and not mention that it was most likely a "one in a million" failure. Bad luck for Piaggio, and not good for the Moto Guzzi reputation.

ANNUVVEREDIT: "spoilt brat" also springs to mind. The other bloke, who seems to be the father, is on a bike that costs around €24,000  and Junior is doing "don't want that anymore, I want a different one". I'm afraid I don't have much patience for that sort of thing.

 

Edited 16 hours ago by audiomick

[p6x]

There's a lesson learned here. For all of us.

I am always listening for changes with all my vehicles. Anything that sounds different from before, and I am off to the shop to investigate.

Thus, I captured two problems on my 911, before they could evolve and cause damage:

the left bank distribution chain tensioner; since it works with oil pressure, there is a spring that compensate when you start a cold engine. I heard the sudden rattled when starting after long pauses, and replaced both tensioners.

Alternator; started to make some noise, probably the bearings, it was still working.

If you hear anything out of the normal, I think it is worth investigating sooner than later.

This guy said he inquired with the dealership, and they told him it was nothing to be worried about, I think that was a big mistake to take the reassurance at face value. A new noise that wasn't there before, he should have asked them to open the bike and check it out.

[gstallons]

Immediately !

 With that being said. the dealership could have kept their mouth(s) shut , fixed the bike , had a happy customer and everything is good in Shangri-la .  Garages do favors for good customers with expired mileage , dates ,etc. to keep people happy. I have done it out of a sense of responsibility and good customer relations.