Anyone dual-plug a V11?

[Cliff]

With the above comment on pinging being worse, that is if you don't modify the ignition advance. When you adjust the advance by retarding, then you are better off.

 

So your ECU has the modified ignition timing now or is that fixed the "not running" problem? What was the fix?

[al_roethlisberger]

So your ECU has the modified ignition timing now or is that fixed the "not running" problem? What was the fix?

 

...ahh, sorry for the confusion. Nope, this was the original ECU, with stock map. Changing out the ECU fixed the basic "not running" problem. I still haven't started on the ignition remap part of the project yet

 

 

I'm waiting on getting the bike back, making sure all is well in "stock" form for a bit, then getting the coils, mounting them, and confirming with the "factory pro" fella that he can actually do the remap.... still a few steps left to go

 

 

al

[al_roethlisberger]

...Earth calling Jason

 

Did you ever locate your "missing head" and get it to Mike Rich? It's just about Summer and we need to get this dual-plug thing going!

 

 

BTW, I dropped by the shop Saturday and my bike is basically all together and ready to go. They're still waiting on a replacement bracket from Leo Vince which had arrived bent, but that should be here Tuesday or Wednesday. And if everything looks good on Tues/Wed after the final check, I guess I will be able to finally go get the bike

 

...I'm not sure I remember how to ride

 

 

Then, it's to the drawing boards on how to get the dual-plugging going. Coils, I think that's mostly settled, then get the FI mapped... the second part of which may prove to be no small task

 

al

[Mike Stewart]

Al,

 

I plan to rotate stock at Moto Italiano tomorrow. I will drop off my V11Sport to have a few things repaired ( transmission leak, neutral light, jumping speedo needle) before the warrantee runs out this month. Of course I will be picking up the new Lemans for the ride home. I will check out your bike while I am there.

 

Mike

[al_roethlisberger]

OK, well as I mentioned in a couple other threads, I went to pick up my bike today at Moto Italiano after about 4 months being off the road.

 

You may remember that this trip to the shop was a combination of things. First and foremost, the bike wasn't running. It hardly started, then kicked and bucked and coughed back out of the right throttle body. I also had an oil leak in the rear, and there were a number of body panel pieces that had been warranteed. And finally, as this thread suggests, I had my heads off to Mike Rich for porting and dual-plugging.

 

...so I figured I'd drop the bike off "over the Winter" to get all this done at one time.

 

 

Well, here's the status:

 

1) All the body panels that showed up were replaced without trouble. This was the right front fairing, right red side-plate, and some other nits that I had been picking

 

2) The oil leak was the rear shaft seal, also done under warrantee. Hopefully it will hold.

 

3) The heads came back with no drama. Stage II porting, quarter point in compression increase, and dual-plugs installed, but not "operational" yet. I still have to get new coils, and a new ignition map for that.

 

4) Install Leo Vince Ti Exhausts. BTW, after fiddling, we've got them to go on perfectly straight. They look fine. We didn't have to trim the metal bushing after we bent the Stucci x-over correctly. It came from the Stucci folks a bit.... "off" They look and sound great BTW

 

5) Not running..... still not running

 

 

So here's the deal. While it was in the shop, and after they got the bike back together, Moto Italiano couldn't get the bike to run. After much back-and-forth between Guzzi and the shop, they finally just swapped out an ECU from another bike and they got it to run. Prior to that, it wouldn't idle and would cough and blow the right TB boots off.

 

However when I picked it up today, it seemed fine. But once I rode it a couple miles on the freeway and got it all warmed up, as soon as I let off the throttle it would die. This is the typical issue many of us have had where after running the bike at high RPM, and then coming to a stop... the bike would stumble and die. I have had this problem with the bike from day one, however it was now very pronounced. Then as I limped the bike home, as if I ever let the bike go below 2k, it would die... it started coughing at around 3k, and eventually blew the right TB off. Hooray..

 

...back to the shop.

 

So, the guys were of course more than excited to see me ride back up ...and I understand. This has been frustrating for them as well.

 

Anyway, they tinkered a bit with the air bypass, etc... and got it run and idle a bit higher. After some test-rides around the block, they thought they had the problem licked. However, as soon as I did my longer ride test, same problem albeit not at prounounced. I ran it a couple miles down the freeway at about 65mph, took an offramp, came to a redlight.... dead. I fired it right back up, and had to nurse the throttle to keep it running, which again led to stumbling and coughing.

 

So back to the shop...

 

 

At this point it's now 3pm, and I've been there 3+ hours, and they are at a loss.

 

To their credit, the guys at Moto Italiano have been very helpful and have been trying to get this running. But it's being very tempermental.

 

So, Jason(the owner of the shop) comes out and talks to me a bit. He says he's really sorry and embarassed that this it happening with this bike. He says they've sold 5 or 6 of these LeMans and only my bike and the demo they've got has exhibited this same recurring problem that he knows of. He then offered to immediately send a letter to Guzzi to see if they can't take some special effort to resolve this ASAP as I've been very patient and have been trying to get this fixed for nearly a year. He's going to ask them if they can't just authorize replacing the whole fueling/injection/sensor system, as this piece-meal changing of parts just isn't working. It hasn't worked for their demo '02 LeMans either.

 

So, after waiting several months, I had to leave the bike at the shop again. It just wasn't reliable

 

They are going to let me know what they hear next week, and see what the next steps are.

 

I told Jason that this was very frustrating for me, as I'd like to take the bike on some long trips this Summer, but right now I don't have any confidence in it. Hopefully Guzzi has some insight into what may be causing the bike to run so poorly.

 

Starting Tuesday, they are zeroing out all the sensors and resetting the TPS, etc... all over again. Poor guys, I know they are pulling their hair out over this one

 

al

[TX REDNECK (R.I.P.)]

Al are baldheaded? If not I'm getting the feeling your fixing to start pulling your own hair out

[Cliff]

Sorry to hear of your problems. Has the bike ever performed properly?

 

These two bikes sound like they should be shipped to Italy for detailed diagnosis and replaced outright.

 

Could it be something like a timing wheel being one tooth out? A timing light would be a simple test. They idle with about 5 degrees advance.

[al_roethlisberger]

Who knows? But I'll collect a bunch of your suggestions and put them in one email for them to check into.

 

thx!

al

[Cliff]

Another thing to check would be the signal level from the engine sensor. Its basically a sine wave and you can use a voltmeter to measure it. You should be getting at least 4 or 5 volts peak to peak at idle.

This is measured between the two signal wires from the sensor.

[Mike Stewart]

Al,

Sorry to hear that you are still having problems with your bike.

If your bike didn't have these problems before, then your problem must be related to the work that was just preformed. I would start from scratch and start with rechecking the valve adjustment. I know you had the heads off for the porting and the valves were adjusted at the same time, but the valves could of seated in and closed the clearance. My V11Sport is very sensitive to valve adjustment and I have to run the clearence larger than european specs. (I am currently using .006 intake, .008 exhaust) to avoid the high speed, coming to the stop, engine dying syndrome. Are you also using a Powercommander to compensate for the porting and exhaust system?

 

Keep us posted,

Mike

[al_roethlisberger]

Hey Mike,

 

Thanks for tips, but this problem was unfortunately extant prior to the work.

 

It is true however that it's possible that the modifications exacerbated the problem. But the Moto Italiano guys are very aware of the modifications, and haven't even suggested that this could be related. So I take that as a good sign.

 

I'll pass your thoughts on valve-clearances on to them as well as any other thoughts others have.

 

Oh, and no, I don't have the PCIII hooked up. I'm trying to get the bike to run as well was possible before any other tweaking. While the PCIII may smooth some things out, there is obviously something inherently wrong with the FI on the bike as stock, and I don't want to band-aid over that problem.

 

I assume they simply adjusted the ECU with their software to accomodate for the Leo's, Stucci, and porting.

 

I'll keep ya posted

 

al

[al_roethlisberger]

BTW, if anyone has any other tips or suggestions that I should pass on to the shop, please post by today as I'll be dropping them a condensed email of all the tips later this afternoon.

 

thx!

al

[callison]

I shipped the heads for my Sport 1100i to Mike Rich yesterday. I'm planning to go for dual plugging too. Eventually, we'll have more data points as a result. Whether anyone believes it or not, my main intent is to get better fuel mileage although some extra horsepower would not be unwelcome. Since I don't generally run in the higher rpm ranges, I may be able to hew to this better mileage notion to some extent.

[al_roethlisberger]

Whoa-kay.... round.... err... oh shoot, I dunno.

 

Anyway, I just got off the phone with the shop. Poor guys, they are really trying

 

So MGNA finally called them back after hounding them for TWO DAYS. Geez, MG needs to get their service and dealer-support in gear, but that's another story.

 

 

Well, the suggestion they were given... by a source I am not currently allowed to reveal because it is so far absolutely unofficial... and was given by a unknown service lead, from an unmentioned North American subsidiary of a small motorcycle company... *whew*

 

Wrap the fuel pump and supply line in heat shielding, unhook the tip-over valve, and remove the o-ring in the gas-cap.

 

....you're kidding me

 

 

 

Gee, I think it was in another thread that I asked, no begged, that someone from Guzzi read this forum as I'm pretty sure we had pinpointed some of the problems already. Just take our cue!

 

 

So it was also completely unofficially confirmed from said non-entity that this is why the pump went into the tank for 2003. The engine cooks the pump, the supply line, and with the fairing on the LeMans, it was getting overheated. This was causing the "vapor-lock" we've seen, and also is suspected of causing problems like mine where coming off of a "hot" run to a stop and attempting to idle, there wasn't enough fuel pressure. And of course the tip-over valve and 0-ring caused the "tank suck".

 

No shit? ...really? huh They should let me fix these bikes. I could have told them this, what a year ago?!

 

As mentioned in my FAQ, I think this is also why some interim 2002 bikes had their fuel pumps moved out in front of the engine on some LeMans before the in-tank pump showed up for 2003. This may be why some 2002 LeMans owners never have had this issue.

 

Maybe I should mail them the FAQ, with the date created

 

 

So, my shop is going to wrap the pump and supply-line in reflective(attractive I'm sure) heat shielding and we'll see what happens.

 

Since I had already done the "tip over valve mod" , that's already covered.

 

We'll see if this fixes the problem tomorrow when I take it for a test-ride. I'll let you know.

 

Funny. ... ok, not really

 

al

[al_roethlisberger]

So, as mentioned in an earlier post, I got the bike back a few days back, and it is running better. But it still idles slow and sometimes dies at redlights, especially after a "high speed" run. It also misses about every 45 seconds while idling after getting good and warm.

 

So I dunno... I'll ride it for a while as suggested by the shop to loosen the engine up some more, then we'll take it from there. I may bump the idle a bit as well.

 

 

In the meantime, I've got family in town visiting so I won't be doing anything major to the bike for the dual-plugging project. Nor do I want to embark on that before any long trips this Summer. ...don't want to introduce any new variable.

 

But I did mail my PCIII off to Dynojet to verify that I have the correct and current firmware release, and for just a general checkup before I have it custom mapped. This may also alleviate some of my problems. We'll see.

 

Anyway, I suspect that later in the summer, maybe July-ish, I'll dive into getting the correct coils and track down a shop that can do the timing remap.

 

I confirmed with Todd Eagan from Guzzitech.com that Dynojet isn't working on a PCIIIr, which can adjust timing, for the Guzzi any time in the near future. There just isn't any demand apparently.

 

...keep ya posted.

 

al