Castrol full Synthetic auto oil in a Guzzi?

[Guest jerroldt]

Castrol 20W-50 full Syntec is readily available at Wally Mart for $4.50 per bottle. It has API ratings of SL/SJ/CF. As I found on the web, The SL and SG ratings are the latest for gas engines and the CF rating qualifies it for diesel use. Harley synthetic is about $8.50 per quart. TX says oil is oil but does the Castrol contain any zinc for metal to metal protection?

[Guest rrbasso]

I think Tex, is right about this (one) point, oil is oil, I do think the important thig is frquent oil changes are important, i like every 2500, to 3000.miles and filters at every 5000 to 6000.

[Guest John T]

Mobil 1 is about the same price and is a full group IV/V oil. The 15-50 is good stuff.

 

(This could get complicated)

[Steve G.]

If you are looking for the phosphorzinc additive, you will find it in the turbo deisel rated CC/CF oil. API spec SJ, the latest type, will not have what you are looking for. API spec SG can be considered the best automotive oil you could use in your bike. After SG was superceded in the mid ninties, zinc PPM fell dramatically.

The best of course, and probably overkill for your baby because the Guzzi does not share it's engine/gearbox lubrication, is a proper vegatable based full synthetic rated API spec SG, with also JASO rating. Who has that rating? AGIP 4T 20-50 Super Racing, Castrol R4 Superbike15-50.In the U.S. the best deal for this spec is Mobil 1 V-twin 20-50 motorcycle, and in Canada the best deal [by far] is Kawasaki 4T 15-50 full synthetic, made by Mobil 1.

This specification of oils are the only ones I would consider using if you are planning on stretching you change intervals out to 3000 miles. Non synthetic used, I would change it every 1000 miles.

Ciao, Steve G.

[TX REDNECK (R.I.P.)]

Let's see if can I straighten this out. What I said was, that I've hauled oil out of several refineries to repackagers, who put this same oil into several different jugs with various names on the jugs. All major oil companies have their own additives that they want blended into the base stock. Now , I use synthectic in all my stuff, either Mobil 1 or Shell Rotella synthectic. If I hadn't signed several non- disclosure statements I could tell some F'd up stories about some of these so called wonder oils,but I'm scared of the big oil companies too

[pete roper]

Let's see if can I straighten this out. What I said was, that I've hauled oil out of several refineries to repackagers, who put this same oil into several different jugs with various names on the jugs. All major oil companies have their own additives that they want blended into the base stock. Now , I use synthectic in all my stuff, either Mobil 1 or Shell Rotella synthectic. If I hadn't signed several non- disclosure statements I could tell some F'd up stories about some of these so called wonder oils,but I'm scared of the big oil companies too

(Wheeze! Guffaw!) Yup, agree with Tex. Wonder snot is just that, (I hate getting drawn into oil threads.). For our purposes it's all bollocks. The reason they don't put zinc and phos in oil any more is because it's sudden death to catalytic converters. Does your bike have a cat-con? If I could get *proper* SF rated oil from the late '70's that's what I'd run in my old shitboxes, even the hot-rod. The thing is you can't so you get sold snake oil by the big oil companies.

 

There again, what would I know, my oldest bike only has 300,000 miles on it. How many spineframe owners even expect to think about getting near those sorts of mileages???? Get real guys.

 

Pete

[Guest GGuzzi]

Let's see if  can  I straighten this out. What I said was, that I've hauled oil out of several refineries to repackagers, who put this same oil into several different jugs with various names on the jugs. All major oil companies have their own additives that they want blended into the base stock. Now , I use synthectic in all my stuff, either Mobil 1 or Shell Rotella synthectic. If I hadn't signed several non- disclosure statements I could tell some F'd up stories about some of these so called wonder oils,but I'm scared of the big oil companies too

(Wheeze! Guffaw!) Yup, agree with Tex. Wonder snot is just that, (I hate getting drawn into oil threads.). For our purposes it's all bollocks. The reason they don't put zinc and phos in oil any more is because it's sudden death to catalytic converters. Does your bike have a cat-con? If I could get *proper* SF rated oil from the late '70's that's what I'd run in my old shitboxes, even the hot-rod. The thing is you can't so you get sold snake oil by the big oil companies.

 

There again, what would I know, my oldest bike only has 300,000 miles on it. How many spineframe owners even expect to think about getting near those sorts of mileages???? Get real guys.

 

Pete

Begs the question ,"what do you use RROPER??"

[Steve G.]

I will certainly bow to you guys who retain incredible knowledge with regard to Moto Guzzi. Perhaps what you are saying Pete, by saying get real, is that pre-spine frame Guzzis are so tough, that you could run unrefined crude oil in the things. Is there something substandard about spine frame equipped engines that more fragile? I honestly would like to know.

Everybody knows catalists are broken down with zinc, and that's why they took it out.

So let me get this straight, Porsche equips and reccommends "wonder snot" into it's new cars. Pretty mickey mouse lot them?

Ciao, Steve G.

[pete roper]

What do I use in all my bikes? Well while I was in the USA the Convert was fed NAPA 20/50

 

Over the years I've used a variety of oils, usually bloody cheap ones. I used to use 'Auto Pro', (A NAPA eaquivalent in OZ.) which was simply Valvoline with a different lable on. Then Valvoline got bought out by Woolworths and they cut down radically on the anti-scuff agents and more expensive additives so I stopped using that.

 

Nowadays I use Penrite HPR series oils. Penrite are an Oz blender and they specialise in supplying non friction modified oils with high phoz and zinc contents and they also offer a wider range of multigrades than most major companies. Most of the time I run HPR 30, which is a 30/60 but they also make 20/50, 40/70 and a range of other high and low viscosity multis. Theya also do synthetics for those as want. I dion't think there is much to be gained running synthetic in a road bike, we do run Mobil 1 Racing in the racer though because being a race bike it is asked to go flat chat virtually from cold and in those circumstances the added protection offered before the lubricant reaches its proper operating temperature does, IMHO, warrant it.

 

As for the the issue of Porche recommending synthetics? So what? The purpose of an oil is to lubricate and cool. Perhaps Porche skimp on bearing areas and cooling systems? I'm not aware that anything inside a normally aspirated Porche motor that is anything special in engineering terms?? But I've only seen inside a couple of them, they don't interest me very much.

 

Finally it isn't that pre spine frame Guzzis are ridiculously tough, They are tough but after about '84 more and more manufacturing was farmed out to the lowest bidder and the bean-counters were allowed to run riot. It's been that way, more or less, ever since. Every time someone new takes over the factory promises are made about improving quality and the next thing they're cutting costs! It's bullshit! While the later models do have bigger crank bearings the fact remains that the motors are producing 20% more power than 20 years ago so maybe the bearings are taxed more and need synthetic oil? Personally I don't think so, bearing failures have never been common on any model, even things tha have been hot-rodded to the max, as long as the oil pump was working, the bearings wern't starved and the motor wasn't over-revved.

 

By all means use synthetic if you wish, I'm sure there are lots of theoretical advantages. It's just *MY* belief that on a road bike they are not neccessary. Especially a slow-reving, air-cooled dinosaur.

 

Pete

[belfastguzzi]

It's just *MY* belief that on a road bike they are not neccessary. Especially a slow-reving, air-cooled dinosaur.

And Castrol's too, as per other thread, for first 5,000 miles at least – then after that running-in period use synth if you desire.

[dlaing]

How can we find the perfect oil?

Automotive synthetics are often inexpensive, and provide good value, but they don't have enough zinc phospate.

Motorcycle oils are expensive, provide dubiously increased amounts of zinc, etc. but lack friction modifiers because they must work with wet clutches.

So who makes a synthetic for dry clutched, catalytic converterless engines?

I am not sure, but if you took Automotive synthetic, such as that offered by Mobil and Castrol and found a ZDDP zinc phospate additive, you could make the ideal oil.

[gthyni]

How can we find the perfect oil?

Automotive synthetics are often inexpensive, and provide good value, but they don't have enough zinc phospate.

Motorcycle oils are expensive, provide dubiously increased amounts of zinc, etc. but lack friction modifiers because they must work with wet clutches.

So who makes a synthetic for dry clutched, catalytic converterless engines?

I am not sure, but if you took Automotive synthetic, such as that offered by Mobil and Castrol and found a ZDDP zinc phospate additive, you could make the ideal oil.

 

 

Motul 300V

 

expensive, but probably the ultimate oil for dry clutch motorcycle engines

[al_roethlisberger]

.... as is often the case following, and the impetus of oil threads.... after all these posts in this and the other "oil thread".... I think I'm left even more confused than when we started

 

And doing research on the Motul site doesn't help much either, because every "model" oil they make is apparently the "ultimate"

 

 

*sigh*

 

 

I think it's more helpful to clarify the "type" of oil these bikes are supposed to use, and I don't mean synthetic or dino ....and then maybe give a few examples of brands that owners can choose from like the Motul example.

 

Then the readers can go comparison shop those examples, their merits and pricing, on their own

 

 

al

[gthyni]

With the dry clutch and separate (oilwise) gear box it is really

less critical what you use. A wet clutch make it all a bit

of a compromise since to oil can't by too anti-friction or the

clutch will slip, with the dry clutch that is not a problem.

 

If you going to pay a premium for a really high class oil like

Motul synthetic, be sure to get the right one:

- 300V for dry clutch

- 5100 for wet clutch

I have been told.

 

Edit:

just read the Motul FAQ, it claims 300V could be used with wet clutch too,

but I still thinks the above is about right anyway. If you are racing a R1 you

probably has your clutches in good condition compared to an old street R1

with half-worn-out clutch.

[pete roper]

It is very unwise to use any sort of friction modified oil in air cooled motors, it will glaze the bores as soon as look at you so avoid anything with an FM prefix or sufix.

 

Pete