Aonther Scura clutch broken

[roberto]

I fitted a new RAM clutch prior to doing a lap round France - as usual the clutch was silent for the first 200 miles before it started making the usual noise. I've done about 4,000 miles since the change with no problems - all high-rev/speed miles as normal. I'll probably fully inspect the clutch this winter as the bike's needing a complete stripdown now (bearings on the way out).

 

For information - my flywheel didn't fully separate from the crankshaft - it was still held on by the large steel washer & bolts. It was able to float a few mm back though, causing the ring-gear bolts to clash with the gearbox ribs. This resulted in a metallic sound very different to the usual clutch noises - alerting me to the new problem.

 

From the pictures of the latest failure, it looks like the clutch separated from the crankshaft - probably due to a circular crack as happenned on mine. I think the flywheel on Paul's Scura failed due to radial cracks allowing a section of the flywheel to separate. My flywheel also showed that type of crack but they had not propagated to the edge - thus there was very little damage to the engine/gearbox cases. Lucky or what?

[belfastguzzi]

I think that it is difficult to say, from the pictures and the description of what happened, that this is absolutely, definitely a clutch problem. There is clearly catastrophic high-speed destruction. While it might have been the clutch breaking apart, could this not have also been initiated by some other mechanical failure/losseness/break around the flywheel/starter/clutch areas?

 

Though it is a fair point that the engine can rev to high speeds in any gear and therefore at slower road speeds, I think that very high revs are not going to be sustained in low gears at low road speeds. I do think that riding at 220 Kph implies different circumstances than those when reaching high revs and changing up through the gears. 220 is fast – and the motor is hammering hard. Any small failure in the belhousing has a big chance of causing huge destruction under that condition.

 

Of course even at 220 kph this should not happen in a properly constructed and maintained motor, but I don't want to jump to a fearful conclusion (about my bike) on the (very dramatic) evidence so far.

 

(I wish I lived closer to some of the other riders here as I would consider a motor stripdown to examine the 'problem areas', out of interest. While I would do it alone if I have to after suffering a catastrophe, it would be better for a few people to get together and pool their knowledge, experience and ideas. A UK Scura rally at someone's garage next year?) – EDIT – I have just read Roberto's last past: maybe we should go and peer through his windows when he gets to work on his motor this winter, though I would still like to see an original (unrepaired) assembly.

[Baldini]

I can check the german v11 site to see what theories are flying around there...

Jonathan,

 

Thanks for coming in on this... I don't speak German & I'd love to know what goes on on the German V11 forum - the only Germans I've met have been on IOM at Manx, they seemed to have a real individual & honest approach to modifications... ...

 

KB

[jrt]

Jeez, which bearings are going out?

You like the RAM clutch? I'm thinking about fitting one on my Eldorado, even though they are hell of expensive.

Jason

[Paul Minnaert]

RAM expensive??, here it's the cheapest you can get.

 

Others have there share in problems, here a zx10r frontwheel, but kawasaki is replacing all frontwheels at the moment. And I suppose the number is much bigger as guzzi builds bikes in a year.

[al_roethlisberger]

....indeed, as I've also pointed out a few times, here is yet another example of: "See, it's not just Guzzis...."

 

 

New Yamaha R1s Shipped Without Grease

 

 

...and the one above is particularly appropriate as some have even reported some Japanese shafties being shipped without any spline grease. Hrmmm, have'nt we complained of that before ourselves?

 

After reading many other multi-make boards out there, although I think we all have some justifiable nits to pick here and there, the Guzzis aren't really all that bad in comparison. They all have bugs, even the "uber reliable" Big4 Japanese bikes

 

 

I hope this clutch issue does get resolved/clarified one day soon though, if for nothing else to reassure those owners that have this model.

 

al

[jrt]

RAM expensive??, here it's the cheapest you can get.

 

Well, $500 US or Euro 400 seems like a lot to me. I could buy new clutch plates for a lot cheaper, but I want to move away from the Eldo flywheel.

[roberto]

JRT,

 

I should clarify, the swingarm bearings are a bit notchy - I'll be replacing them, and a few other cycle bits - and I really need an excuse to strip the bike down to look at the clutch! The engine and gearbox are going great - no need to go in there.

[Paul Minnaert]

Well, $500 US or Euro 400 seems like a lot to me. I could buy new clutch plates for a lot cheaper, but I want to move away from the Eldo flywheel.

 

So maybe compare with the cost of a complete 2 plate Guzzi clutch?

 

And Roberto, swingarm bearings???

I had to remove them because of the extension of the swingarm, brute force was needed. In the end we welded a bunch on the center. But I had to repaint the swingarm anyway.

And the bearings are very luxery, high priced.

[jrt]

Roberto- got it. I had those bearings go south on one of my bikes. I had to use a torch on the housing and welded a puller on the race to extract, like Paul. Hope you have better luck.

 

Paul, new clutch complete with lighter flywheel is 533. Flywheel alone is 345. My input hub is new ($95), but it's an older shallow spline design. It's really not a big deal. I'm just bitching, because I'm cheap. My major gripe with the Eldo clutch (besides it not working) is that the flywheel is so dang heavy.

 

Anyway, I won't do anything until I have a chance to take it all apart. Unlike Roberto, I am not looking forward to it.

 

J

[gthyni]

Others have there share in problems, here a zx10r frontwheel, but kawasaki is replacing all frontwheels at the moment. And I suppose the number is much bigger as guzzi builds bikes in a year.

Paul,

 

do you know the story about that specific ZX10R-wheel?

Broken during riding how? Causing crash?

A ZX10R riding guy got a bit concerned since he is still

waiting for a replacement wheel.

[Paul Minnaert]

NO I don't know the story on this one, I just found it in another forum. I read somewhere that kawasaki said ot to drive with it anymore. But maybe it's only a problem that these guys do only wheelys with these bikes.

[Ballacraine]

Is it just the Scuras that have exploded or have any bikes with the genuine RAM clutches expired spectacularly?

 

Nige.

[guzzi323]

Unfortunately, I may soon be in a position to shed some light on this whole Scura expoding clutch issue. But first, some history....

My Scura's clutch became 'quiet' (i.e. no noise sitting in neutral at a stop light) at about 19K miles. It worked just fine, it just gradually stopped making the rattling noise. Fast forward to 22K miles on the bike and ...

About a week or two ago I started hearing a big metallic 'clack' noise occaisionally in the morning as I transitioned from open to closed (or closed to open) throttle. It now makes it every time the bike has been sitting for a number of hours but ONLY for the first minute or so of running. If you do throttle transitions very gently for the first minute or so, it's fine. After that it seems fine and you can ride it as hard as you like and it all seems good. The clutch still works smoothly even during this period of ugly noise.

Needles to say, I am somewhat concerned. It's a big, nasty, scarey noise when it does it. I spent last night looking for external causes (I was thinking maybe a brake disc mounting bolt had backed out and the caliper was whacking it back into place, or something except this noise sounds bigger than that) and found nothing. Before I rip the bike apart I'm hoping somebody here might have some great idea as to the cause.

It sure would be nice if Moto Guzzi had an official response to this. I fear all us single plate 'performance' clutch folk are in for an ordeal.

 

I still love my Guzzi, I just don't know why. I'm reminded of all the bad girlfriends I use to have...

[jrt]

Well, you know what they say about crazy girlfriends...

 

But on the bike- Can you drop the starter off, then push around on the flywheel to check for movement (back and forth- not round )? Also, I read that these clutches expand as they heat- could this be the reason behind the noise you hear? I'm slowly tearing down my eldorado right now (weird clutch behavior), so I feel your pain.

j