201 V11 upgrade to higher compression

[Guest cfc]

Now that Guzzi is offering higher compression in thier V11 models would upgrading my older one be possible? If so, easy or complex i.e. new pistons or full top end rebuild?

 

I'm fairly new to this forum, had my V11 ('01) for about two weeks now. First Guzzi was '70 Ambassador before that 1000 Kawi police ('70) then '69 t120r, then Buell, now V11. Back in love with Guzzi. Great bikes, and this forum has been an invaluable source.

[jrt]

I understand your wanting to upgrade, CFC. I own an Eldorado, and after riding one of these mighty beasts, the V11 sport just feels anaemic.

Al and helicopterjim have higher compression pistons; they seem to like the effects.

There are two options as far as I know: Mike Rich Motorsports and FBF. I can't say much about either one, though.

Cheers,

Jason

[RacerX]

Now that Guzzi is offering higher compression in thier V11 models would upgrading my older one be possible? If so, easy or complex i.e. new pistons or full top end rebuild?

 

cfc, my opinion (for what it's worth) says that I wouldn't waste my time or money on high-comp anything. The trade-off for power gains to increased running temperature/reducing engine longevity -vs- power benefits is very low. Seat of the pants gains "seem" to be had... but I have yet to see any of the high-comp motors do any better then simply modified ones. Hell, even Jaap just got into the 90 rwhp range without them. Guzzi 2v'ers will peak at 90-95 rwhp with stock bore, no matter what is done to them. That's been said and proven for better then 15 years, by people far more knowledgeable (Manfred Hecht of former 'RaceCo' for one) then I.

 

I get to ride a ton of motorcycles (I test for a couple magazines), and have ridden big handfuls of increased compression bikes, and say unless you're racing, simple things like intake/exhaust mods, and head-flow work and a PCIIIusb are the way to go.

 

There is a good amount of Performance (including PCIII) info that can be found at: GuzziTech.com

 

Hope that helps,

Todd@GuzziTech.com

[al_roethlisberger]

I don't have mine yet(they are in the mail ) ...although they should be here any day now, then into the shop for the case swap.

 

I'll let you know how the Mike Rich pistons seem to work. Unfortunately a new cam is going in at the same time, so it will be hard to isolate where the benefit(if any) comes from. But I'll report what I can.

 

I think I will be the only one on the forum(at least that has spoken up) that will have the Mike Rich pistons.... although he has apparently sold many to the community at large. Everyone else seems to have gone with the FBF "11:1" kit. The Mike Rich kit will be a true 10.5:1 from what I understand.

 

al

[helicopterjim R.I.P.]

but I have yet to see any of the high-comp motors do any better then simply modified ones

I would have to agree because in a straight line run my V11 with 11:1 pistons isn't signifigantly faster than ones without ( and with similar mods - PCIII, Exhaust).

 

However!

Seat of the pants gains "seem" to be had

I know for certain riding against the same bikes that I have a HUGE increase in midrange power - as anyone who knows what increased compression changes will do for a bike. Higher compression has never been a way to more horsepower. It is a way to more efficiency. It is probably the best way to increase fuel efficiency.

It also makes the bike much more fun to ride - as in "seat of the pants".

I will reccomend it to anyone!

 

P.S. I would like to hear how Al's Mike Rich kit works out. My FBF pistons were such an easy job to install. I cannot imagine why everyone else has not done it yet!!

[Guest davidb]

I agree with racerx on the pistons. We have a gas (quality) problem in C.A. Higher comp. will increase the chance of pinging. I have had better results with intake/exhaust mods. For my guzzi, I cut off the exhaust at the muffler and welded a 2 inch/1 3/4 inch reducer so I could try a assortment of mufflers. I ended up with straight drag pipes with back pressure baffles. Each time I put on a set of pipes, I would run it up and down Mountain Ranch Road to get the full rpm/load range. They are loud, but real Fat in the 2500 to 5000 range. With the stock pipes, it was flat in this area.

[helicopterjim R.I.P.]

You don't have high test gas in CA? I admit I have been caught a couple of times where I couldn't get high test so I put in a bit of regular and kept the revs way up until I could get some good gas. For me it was no problem.

 

but real Fat in the 2500 to 5000 range. With the stock pipes, it was flat in this area.

 

Just like my 11:1 pistons but you didn't say what it was like above that. My bike has no loss at high RPM (maybe a little gain - I hope). Closing up the exhaust will limit top end power. I still like to wind it out even if it is only a pushrod aircooled twin!

[al_roethlisberger]

We have "high test"(high octane) but CA uses specifically formulated(oxygenated) gas, and is the only State in the Nation with such fuel requirments.

 

I've heard comparisons saying 91 octane fuel in CA is like mid 80s octane elsewhere. Our gas definitely has some issues

 

al

[antonio carroccio]

For the compression is only one way to handle. You have to let rectify the two heads of your V11 for not more than 0,25 mm. Possibly you have to change the camshaft for a new inner timing. Don’t buy Carillo or some too expensive bull-shit like this. That’s wonderful stuff, I know, but that’s costs too much money for material and too much money for wages. And the result is almost the same. Ask Bruno Scola.

But……….with PowerCommander III you can brush your teeth too.

 

ciao

[Guest cfc]

I guess the bottom line is we all are curiouse about squeezing more out of these bikes for better or worse. Right now, as is, my V11 is a blast to ride. Traded for about 20 milew with my buddy on a Triumph daytona and he almost cried when I asked him for my bike back (we were in nice tight windy mountain roads, Mt Tamalpias CA). I've got some kind of race exhaust system (carbon fiber cans that say "for off road use only" that sound, to quote the great contemperary American poet Snoop double D, "bad as #^@%". I am hoping to get a Magni fairing (the Sfida) and then do some suspension work before I try to get more motor (pwr cmndr 1st and K&N then maybe do the high compression switch). And the road goes on forever.................................

cfc

[robbiekb]

i have the fbf high compression pistons , coupled with the pcIII, stucchi crossover, K&N pods and the mistral ti's. the only thing that i've noticed is that my bike sometimes pops at idle now as its running in a higher state of tune, oh yeah and there was a vibe increase at around 3500 rpm

[JuhaV]

Well, I am most propably going to try those Mike Rich 10.5:1 pistons in my Sport Corsa 1100i. For one thing I aim for the higher compression, but also for better defined squish band height and more optimal combustion chamber geometry that comes with those pistons, as I have understood. The latter two are also important when trying to avoid pinging. Modern motorcycle engines with fuel injection have up to 13:1 compression ratios without any pinging problems. I kind of think that quite reasonable 10.5:1 should not be asking too much even if it is an aircooled one. With correct mixture, I am quite confident that pinging or overheating will not be significant problems.

 

BR, JuhaV

[Guest callithrix]

My 03 lemans has FBF intake, fbf pipes, fbf Hi compression pistons, stucchi xover and a PC III, my 02 lemans is completely stock. Guess which one I had problems with pinging? Ans. the 02.( it has been remedied).

Both get Ca. brand Hi-Oct. gas and I buy from the cheapest place in town. I work on my own bikes and literally dropped the Hi comp pistons in; i.e No squish measuements. The only time I've induced pinging on the 03 is when I should've down shifted to pass someone. The 02 use to have the same mods as the 03 with the exception of the Hi comp pistons and was run on the same PC map. My subjective experience is that the 03 revs and accelerates faster and harder than the 02 did with the same pipe, intake, x-over and map. Just my two cents.

[robbiekb]

isn't that weird that your "stock" lemans had the pinging issue ? It just goes to show that the initial setup from the factory is kind of suspect for the earlier bikes. As an fyi, when i rode a Nero Corsa this year, none of the build/fit and finish/tuning issues which have existed with my bike seemed applicable.

 

So what do you use your second LeMans for ?

[Guest callithrix]

Being guzzis and with my propensity to tinker I invariably wind up with one bike out of commission. So the 02 is my alternative ride, source of back ordered parts and the model for when I forget how to reassemble something, which is more often than not.... At least that's how I rationalize it... Plus she is my first guzzi so i have an irrational attachment to it